Posted on 07/30/2004 8:25:56 PM PDT by nuconvert
Three Tampa City Council Members Walk Out on Atheist's Invocation
The Associated Press
TAMPA, Fla. (AP) - Three Tampa city council members walked out of chambers rather than listen to an atheist give the opening invocation. Council members Kevin White, Mary Alvarez and Rose Ferlita left their seats Thursday rather than listen to Michael R. Harvey, a member of Atheists of Florida who had been invited by council member John Dingfelder to offer the invocation.
Even before Harvey spoke, White was pushing to cancel the invocation. These are sacred moments that refer to a supreme being, White said, and this speaker doesn't believe in God.
"We have never had people of an atheist group represent Americans," White said. "And I don't think it is appropriate in this setting."
White's motion to cancel the invocation failed 2-4, supported only by him and Alvarez, who called White "very brave" for making the effort.
"I just can't sit here and listen to someone that does not believe in a supreme being," Alvarez said.
Ferlita voted to allow the invocation go on, but also walked out.
"I think this is sending us in the wrong direction," Ferlita said.
Mayor Pam Iorio, who did not attend the council meeting, said later the invocation should be reserved for speakers who invoke God.
"I certainly don't agree with having an atheist come for the invocation," she said. "I think the invocation is a time for the council to start their day with an expression of faith."
Dingfelder said his invitation to Harvey started with a neighborhood talk. He often saw Ed Golly, president of Atheists of Florida, in South Tampa. Golly needled him that the invocation violated the separation of church and state.
"I agree you should have equal time," Dingfelder told him. "I'll set it up."
Dingfelder, who attends a Jewish synagogue, has also invited Baptist and Methodist preachers, as well as a chaplain from MacDill Air Force Base.
"I was honestly hoping it would not be a big deal," he said. "Obviously, I am a little naive about that."
"I agree you should have equal time," Dingfelder told him. "I'll set it up."
equal time? he's an elected official representing Tampa residents, not a game show host.
Atheism is a religion. SO is liberalism.
I have thought about it...If I thought about without my faith, it would indeed make me very frightened. But, alas for them, I have my faith and I smile at them, knowing.
FMCDH(BITS)
Thanks for posting! I just sent all three of them e-mails...(Google up Tampa City Council and you get their e-mail message service.)
How about proportionate time. Maybe 1% Athiest population, then 1% Athiest invitation.
Question of semantics- what is an atheist invoking, and from whom or what is the atheist invoking it??
From Webster's Online:
In`vo`ca´tion
n. 1.
1. The act or form of calling for the assistance or presence of some superior being; earnest and solemn entreaty; esp., prayer offered to a divine being.
Sweet invocation of a child; most pretty and pathetical!
- Shak.
The whole poem is a prayer to Fortune, and the invocation is divided between the two deities.
- Addison.
2. (Law) A call or summons; especially, a judicial call, demand, or order; as, the invocation of papers or evidence into court.
An atheist giving an invocation is an oxymoron. Who are they gonna invoke?
Correct!
And so is environmentalsim, but the humped-up liberal courts have rules otherwise.
He said: "Thank God, I'm an atheist!"
There is no place in a rational world for mythical beings; which, I guess, explains why we do not live in a rational world.
Are you sure he wasn't an ironist?
That premise doesn't really work, though, because atheism is not really a set of beliefs "about God", it is a denial that the entire concept of "God" exists or is worthy of discussion. To an atheist, "God" is an invented fictional concept just like "Popeye the Sailor Man", and there is no need to have a belief that He either does or does not exist. So atheism is not a religious belief - it's a total and complete absence of opinion on a subject which atheists feel is completely meaningless. Asking an atheist "what is your belief about God" is like asking him "which of Donald Duck's nephews do you believe is the best sculptor: Huey or someone else?" It's a question which to him he doesn't have an answer, because he doesn't believe that it has any meaning. Analogously, saying "an atheist doesn't believe in God, so non-belief is his religion" is the same as saying "okay, so he believes Huey is the best, because he didn't give any other answer.'
Too many people believe that our poor atheist cousins are trying to spread a "religion of defying God", rather than simply not having an opinion and thinking that the concept of God is inexplicable and meaningless.
That seems fair, since genuine atheists are vanishingly rare. The majority religion is Christians-who-really-don't-give-it-a-lot-of-thought-but-God-is-okay-with-them-they-guess.
To whom was the invocation addressed? Do these people even know what an invocation is?
I'm changing my tagline.
nuconvert, give SedVictaC&etc. his due, and I appreciate the post, SVC, but you and others whom I've seen argue this way here over the years miss the point.
While atheism is not in its denial of God a "religion," it acts as a religion and excercises the same rights and freedoms as a religion under the U.S. Constitution. Therefore, as a matter of law -- not religion -- atheism ought to be considered and treated as a religion, and the current privileges it maintains in law over true religions ought to be removed.
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