Totalization Treaty With Mexico -- The Sellout of America Continues

U.S. BORDER CONTROL ^ | August/10/04

[ApesForEvolution]

We can't share our Social Security system with a Communist country. Mexico is way too unstable for a merger at this time.

>>>

Fitz? "At this time..."???

You can't be serious that ANY time would be a good time.

[ApesForEvolution]

Wow. Let's pray that isn't required, but I haven't seen the hope yet...

[ApesForEvolution]

Yes, that could very well be next...talk about killing USBP and ICE morale...what a foolish political suicide dance we see going on.

[ApesForEvolution]

But Rep. John Hostettler, Indiana Republican and chairman of the subcommittee, said an agreement with Mexico will be very different from earlier agreements. "None of those countries have public policies that encourage illegal immigration," he said.

>>>

We keep rewarding our Mexican enemies...

[bjcintennessee]

ping

[texastoo]

I suggest you read the fact Sheet on the Mexico Totalization Agreement as it is in the House Way and Means committee. Your post #3 is somewhat disingenuous. Jo Ann Barhart is the person that signed this bill with Mexico. Since she fooled you Hack, may we just assume she is covering her a$$.

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/ss/mexicofacts.pdf

If you will read the "Proposed totalization Agreement with Mexico:

According to the GAO, the proposed agreement will likely increase the number of "unauthorized" Mexican workers and their family members eligible for Social Security benefits.

Mexican workers who previously lacked the required 40 quarters of coverage could quallify with as few as 6 quarters of coverage.(benefits would be prorated to reflect only credits earned in the US)

Maybe this will get your attention Hack.

More family members of Mexican workers would become "entitled" because the agreement "waives" rules that prevent payments to non-citizen dependents living outside the U.S. In other words, too bad for Canada, Chile and all the other countries we have totalization agreements with. These countries don't get the special treatment as Mexico.

Next is the totalization agreement and benefits for "UNAuthorized Immigrants".(ILLEGAL ALIENS)

So in other words all the illegal alien has to do is get a shopping card, work 18 months illegally, go back home and the US government will mail them a check at whatever age V. Fox declares is their retirement age.

As Fitz mentioned earlier, Mexico's social security is almost insolvent now. Their doctors and nurses will strike , I think Thursday, so we on the border can expect our hospitals to be even more crowded.

All of you read the very last paragraph of this fact sheet.

[TERMINATTOR]

The Mexican Federalies shoot illegal "migrants" crossing their southern border. What a wonderful idea!

[Bikers4Bush]

The sellout of our sovereignty is nearly complete.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Maybe people want to see workers double-taxed.

[FITZ]

I know -- I doubt there is going to be any time -- but if Mexico brought itself up to the same level as us or Canada it would all be different. Right now the wage differences are so overwhelming -- nurses in Mexico might make $2 an hour but if they work here it's $20 an hour -- how can they receive a full social security check from the USA if they work 30 years in Mexico and 18 months here.

Plus we might think Fox instantly stabilized Mexico and somehow he's got it up to the level of a middle class country but Mexico is really a mess and getting worse. It depends on where you go and how hard you look --- if you go to the Zona Rosa, it looks like a very wealthy country, if you go to Cancun it looks good --- but you can go just south of Juarez and see young women living in cardboard boxes with their children.

[Bikers4Bush]

The only problem being Southack that the current administration plans making all the illegals legal.

Then they'll all be eligible and lawsuits will be filed left and right to gain access to the money they paid into the system while illegal.

SS will collapse inside of two years under that weight.

Especially when you add in the fact that there is a bill currently being pushed through congress that would allow resident aliens to collect SS after only 6 quarters of work as opposed to the 40 quarters that you and I are required to work before collecting.

[Southack]

"According to the GAO, the proposed agreement will likely increase the number of "unauthorized" Mexican workers and their family members eligible for Social Security benefits."

Yes, that's true...but the GAO, in referring to "unauthorized" workers, is *not* referring to illegal aliens.

The government uses that term on us, in fact. We are all "unauthorized" workers until we have all worked so many Quarters of so many years; then we can be authorized to draw Social Security payments upon retirement.

You can see that very thing on the second page of that PDF document that you linked above, as the SSA outlines "what" makes for an unauthorized worker.

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

You can see that very thing on the second page of that PDF document that you linked above, as the SSA outlines "what" makes for an unauthorized worker.

Sorry, Hack. The term, "unauthorized worker" does not appear in the PDF document at all.

Do you have a reference which defines the term, "unauthorized worker" where non-citizens are going to be receiving SS benefits?

The term, "unauthorized immigrant" does appear and does refer to what, before the Arbusto Administración came into power, used to be called, "illegal immigrants"

Here's what the second pages has to say about "unauthorized immigrants":

Totalization Agreements and Benefits for Unauthorized Immigrants

• Whether or not a totalization agreement exists, unauthorized immigrants may receive credit toward Social Security for their work, but they cannot collect benefits while living in the United States until they obtain legal resident or U.S. citizen status. In addition, under the recently passed Social Security Protection Act of 2004 (P.L. 108-203), a non-citizen must have been authorized to work in the United States at some point during their career in order to be eligible for benefits, effective for individuals filing for benefits based on Social Security numbers issued on or after January 1, 2004.
• A totalization agreement with Mexico has no effect on retired or disabled workers who are Mexican citizens living outside the U.S. who already have enough credits in the U.S. Social Security system to qualify for benefits. Generally, non-citizen retired or disabled workers living outside the United States for more than 6 consecutive months may not receive benefits unless they meet one of several exceptions. For example, a non-citizen retired or disabled worker may receive payments outside the United States (including benefits based on unauthorized work in the United States) if he/she is a citizen of a country that has a social insurance system that pays benefits to eligible U.S. citizens residing outside that country, which Mexico does.
• A totalization agreement overrides benefit restrictions to non-citizen spouses and children. Under current law, non-citizen spouses and children must have lived in the United States for at least five years (lawfully or unlawfully), and the family relationship to the worker must have existed during that time in order for them to receive benefits while outside the United States. A totalization agreement overrides this requirement.

Points two and three are especially telling about the intent of this totalization agreement:

2) Non-citizens may receive benefits if their government has a system which pays benefits to eligible US citizens residing outside that country. Since Mexico has such a system, they're automatically authorized. It doesn't matter that Mexico's government is rife with corruption or whether any US citizens actually receive benefits. Only that Mexico has such a system.

3) Previously, a non-citizen's family must have lived in the US for at least five years in order to receive benefits. This totalization agreement overrides this requirement. Presumably to waive the five year requirement, which means that they're automatically able to receive benefits regardless of how long they've been here. (illegally)

Now, you can support the Arbusto Administración's efforts to give away US tax dollars to illegal immigrants and you can call it what ever you want, but a spade is still an effing shovel and this is one big effing shovel.

I've said this before and I'll keep on saying it: Jorge Arbusto, like his father before him, never met a big government snake oil he didn't like.

And you never did explain what happens to the illegals already here when don't sign onto Jorge Arbusto's non-amnesty amnesty program.

[Southack]

"Sorry, Hack. The term, "unauthorized worker" does not appear in the PDF document at all. "

Lets not get into girlie man nuances. Here's what that document says:

"According to the GAO 1 , the proposed agreement will likely increase the number of unauthorized Mexican workers and their family members eligible for Social Security benefits.
Mexican workers who previously lacked the required 40 quarters of coverage could qualify with as few as 6 quarters of coverage (benefits would be prorated to reflect only credits earned in the U.S.).
More family members of Mexican workers would become entitled, because the agreement waives rules that prevent payments to non-citizen dependents living outside the U.S.
According to SSA, approximately 50,000 U.S. and Mexican workers would receive a pro-rated “totalized” benefit from Social Security after the first five years of the agreement (this number does not include those newly eligible for family benefits)."

Also, notice that the whole agreement applies to a mere 50,000 people. 47,000 legal Mexican workers employed in the U.S., and 3,000 legal U.S. workers employed in Mexico.

All of the above are now exempt from Mexico's double-tax on wages, courtesy of this agreement.

Goodness, the sky really is falling...

< /mocking >

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

Lets not get into girlie man nuances.

The girlie man nuance was yours, not mine.

You were the one who said that the PDF document used the term, "unauthorized worker", not me.

The numbers you're throwing around only refer to the number of legal immigrants in the country at this time.

But, the document also states;

"According to the GAO 1 , the proposed agreement will likely increase the number of unauthorized Mexican workers and their family members eligible for Social Security benefits."

So, the 50,000 number is going to be significantly higher, especially when the following paragraph is taken into account;

"More family members of Mexican workers would become entitled, because the agreement waives rules that prevent payments to non-citizen dependents living outside the U.S."

How much higher? Well, how many illegals are currenting in the US?

And you still haven't answered my question about what action will be taken against the illegals who don't "register" for Jorge Arbusto's non-amnesty amnesty program?

Will you ever answer it or don't you know?

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

The government uses that term on us, in fact. We are all "unauthorized" workers until we have all worked so many Quarters of so many years; then we can be authorized to draw Social Security payments upon retirement.

This proposal seeks to reduce the number of consecutive quarters worked from 40 to as few as 6.

So, instead of being required to be continuously employed in the US for 10 years, they only have to work 3 years.

[Southack]

"How much higher? Well, how many illegals are currenting in the US?"

It doesn't apply to illegals. The term "unauthorized" applies to legal workers...workers who have not yet been authorized to receive Social Security payments (i.e. not working long enough).

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

It doesn't apply to illegals. The term "unauthorized" applies to legal workers...workers who have not yet been authorized to receive Social Security payments (i.e. not working long enough).

Really?

That's not what the document says:

Whether or not a totalization agreement exists, unauthorized immigrants may receive credit toward Social Security for their work, but they cannot collect benefits while living in the United States until they obtain legal resident or U.S. citizen status. Generally, non-citizen retired or disabled workers living outside the United States for more than 6 consecutive months may not receive benefits unless they meet one of several exceptions. For example, a non-citizen retired or disabled worker may receive payments outside the United States (including benefits based on unauthorized work in the United States) if he/she is a citizen of a country that has a social insurance system that pays benefits to eligible U.S. citizens residing outside that country, which Mexico does.

Additionally:

A totalization agreement overrides benefit restrictions to non-citizen spouses and children. Under current law, non-citizen spouses and children must have lived in the United States for at least five years (lawfully or unlawfully), and the family relationship to the worker must have existed during that time in order for them to receive benefits while outside the United States. A totalization agreement overrides this requirement.

So, under this proposal, it doesn't matter whether the spouses and children of the non-citizen were here legally or not. As long as they've been in the US for at least 5 years and enjoyed a familial relationship with the applicant during that 5 year period, they're eligible to receive benefits.

These points clearly shows that the term, "unauthorized immigrant" describes someone here illegally and not someone who is not yet eligible to receive benefits.

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

Excuse me!

I was wrong.

The totalization proposal overrides the 5 year, familial relationship requirement currently in place, which means that the spouse and family here illegally are immediately eligible to receive Social Security benefits.

[texastoo]

I agree with you Dan. The way I read the GAO fact sheet it appears that this will benefit the illegals.

I have been wondering what the October surprise from Hillary could be. If this is it and it passes congress, Bush will lose the election. The passage of this will be right before the election. The MSM has been quite about this for some reason even though they are aware. It is estimated that this will cost $320 billion the next 20 years.