Why you should worry that there are fewer white male doctors

Telegraph ^ | 9/5/04 | Dr Theodore Dalrymple

[cyborg]

I got the impressiont that the author thinks of himself too much. He thinks that something requires a majority presence of white males in it to be respectable, which isn't true. The real concern here and in the UK is increasing government control.

[moonman]

"The pillar of Afro-American society who took Bakke's rightful place just because he was black? He went on to kill several of his patients, lost his medical license, and is now a long-term 'guest' of the State of California Department of Corrections."

Any link to support this? I'd love to save it in my archives.

[cyborg]

very interesting... considered that many people self identify themselves, I wonder how accurate studies are unless they actually use a dna-type test to determine the percentages of genes. It's pretty fascinating if one is a geneticist I suppose.

[moonman]

Isn't this article from England, where they have national health insurance for everyone. If so, imagine all the regulations they must have on doctors, including income.
If so, forget the entire content of the article.

[cyborg]

http://www.adversity.net/FRAMES/Editorials/48_PatrickChavis.htm

*** Bakke was murdered. He's not even alive.

[FITZ]

We have fleets of people now who can get to practice (which is extremely stressful) without ever, ever being stress tested while they could still be stopped.

Yes I think this is bad too --- the blue-collar work mentality where you clock in and out for 8 hour shifts when being a physician takes a different mentality. A patient in crisis at 3 am needs a doctor who can respond. Also patients are in the hospital for 36 hours straight -- it's good to have that overall perspective of how things run in the hospital at various times --- not their whole career but at the beginning is a good time to learn that.

[FITZ]

I think the valid concern the author has is that question he makes that why the field has changed so much that the types it used to attract no longer want this profession. A lot of good doctors say if they had it to do over, they would choose something different because even here in the USA, a doctor cannot order a simple cholesterol test without checking managed care plans and Medicare guidelines to see if they're allowed or else tell the patient that they will be paying for the test. And if a Hillary type plan goes into effect, the patient couldn't have the test even if willing to pay the full cost of it.

[Cronos]

2 reasons - minority preferential treatment in admissions and malpractice insurance costs

errr.. dude -- the article is from the UK -- most doctors there are from India or ethnically Indian and Indians DON'T have preferential treatment in admissions in the UK, no affirmative action

[Cronos]

I am not quite sure the increase in the percentage or Indian doctors in Britain represents a decline in quality, and the author does not present any evidence that it does

Actually it doesn't -- the decline in quality is due to the NHS and socialist medicare

[Cronos]

take a look at your local hospital's surgical team and you'll see that WASPs still dominate...

Well, there are quite a few doctors from the INdian continent

[FITZ]

But for myself I don't pick doctors by their skin color or ethnic background but I have access to more information --- it's interesting to know who the doctors themselves go to when they or their family members are patients. Not always the white male.

[cyborg]

I worry about the health care system today.

[Cronos]

Even the FDA does not consider Indians as a separate ethnic minortiy - we are genetically considered as caucasians./i>

Indians are Caucasians -- they are after all members of the Aryan/Indo-European race

[Cronos]

We're talking about a cultural divide here, not a racial issue.

Not really -- the poster explicitly said WASP -- White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. So, that kind of means all Catholic, Orthodox etc Doctors, all non-Anglo-Saxon doctors aren't kosher either according to the poster.

[Cronos]

Bzzzt--wrong. And it's been this way for a while. MEN RULE!
BAw, grow up -- just because Men have a good average doesn't mean one particular man is smarter than a particular woman. Eastern Euroepan Jews are supposed to be the smartest folks ont eh planet IQ wise -- that doesn't mean that there aren't a few idiots among them. From a family of idiots you could have a smart one too

[FITZ]

I hate to say it --- when it comes to doctors, I'm likely to discriminate on the basis of age --- the new ones coming in don't seem to have what the old ones have. And checking with the HMO on their next course of action isn't the same as the way the old-timers do things -- they're more likely to consult each other.

[Jim Noble]

A patient in crisis at 3 am needs a doctor who can respond

No, actually, that patient needs a doctor who wants to respond.

That can be taught. It's not inborn.

[Iwo Jima]

It's all about government regulations, managed care plans, govermnent control.

I think you're right. Many white males are leaving medicine because they simply will not tolerate the restrictions being placed by managed care/insurance/gov't on how they care for their patients. In my experience, foreign born doctors don't really have a problem with this.

It's not that the HMOs, etc. seek out or even prefer foreign doctors necessarily. It's more that the rules which they make the doctors adhere to cause the white doctors to say "screw that" and do something else, while the foreign doctors just go along with it.

[Iwo Jima]

What do you think of critical care nurses having five 12 hour shifts in a row?

[Jim Noble]

What do you think of critical care nurses having five 12 hour shifts in a row?

Do you mean 5 12s interrupted by 5 twelve-hour rest periods, or 5 straight 12s (60 hours without a break)?