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The method of my madness:

Clinton's ROTC Letter As Entered in Congressional Record (Page: H5550) 7/30/93

Dear Col. Holmes,

I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say.

First, I want to thank you, not only for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing that made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC.

Let me try to explain. As you know, I worked in a very minor position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter lightly but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did.

I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations October 15 and November 16.

Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar at Georgetown I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to "participation in war in any form."

From my work, I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war, which in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation. The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake.

Individuals had to fight, if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their country and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.

Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe die for their country (i.e. the particular policy of a particular government) right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.

The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason only, to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years. (The society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway.)

When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and the resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School because there is nothing else I can do. I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to begin putting what I have learned to use.

But the particulars of my personal life are not near as important to me as the principles involved. After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program itself and all I seem to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I had begun to think that I had deceived you, not by lies--there were none--but by failing to tell you all of the things I'm telling you now. I doubt I had the mental coherence to articulate them then.

At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of my self regard and self confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally, on September 12 I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.

I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it with me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of the second year of my Rhodes scholarship.

And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes and the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is dis-service, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal.

Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Colonel Jones for me. Merry Christmas.


Bill Clinton

1 posted on 09/07/2004 1:24:26 PM PDT by Calpernia
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To: Old Sarge; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub


2 posted on 09/07/2004 1:25:15 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia

Line from "Stairway to Heaven":

"Mmmm, and it makes me wonder..."

4 posted on 09/07/2004 1:27:41 PM PDT by Old Sarge (ZOT 'em all, let MOD sort 'em out!)
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To: Calpernia
Mr. Kerry has said none of his Purple Heart injuries, only one of which removed him from the field for two days, was critical.

Would that be the case involving rice in his posterior?

5 posted on 09/07/2004 1:28:30 PM PDT by ahayes
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To: Calpernia; ActiveDutyUSMC; dakine; bkwells; chookter; Hacksaw434; thumperusn; Hostel; The Sailor; ..
John Kerry directly contributed to the lies of the anti war movement AND caused deaths and injuries
to US Military serving in Vietnam AND
directly caused deaths from injuries at home AND countless suicides because of his false testimony.

John Kerry is not fit to be elected dog catcher let alone President of the United States.
ANYONE who votes for Kerry AFTER knowing this data
is guilty of covering up John Kerry's war crimes!

John Kerry, director of the Vietnam Veterans against the War,
testified before special session the Senate Foreign Relations Committee
April 22, 1971


September 6, 2004 -- **BREAKING** In Yesterday's Lies: Steve Pitkin and the Winter Soldiers, Scott Swett tells the story of a former VVAW member and participant in the Winter Soldier Investigation who states that John Kerry and others pressured him to give false testimony about American atrocities in Vietnam. After more than 33 years, Pitkin is the first Winter Soldier "witness" to file a legal affadavit regarding that event...

My name is Steve Pitkin, age 20, from Baltimore. I served with the 9th Division from May of '69 until I was airvaced in July of '69. I'll testify about the beating of civilians and enemy personnel, destruction of villages, indiscriminate use of artillery, the general racism and the attitude of the American GI toward the Vietnamese. I will also talk about some of the problems of the GIs toward one another and the hassle with officers.

-- Steve Pitkin, Winter Soldier Investigation, February 1, 1971.

E-Mail and/or fax these url's to EVERYONE ASAP! Kerry MUST be exposed NOW!

Steve Pitkin Story

Steve Pitkin Affadavit, August 31, 2004

Steve Pitkin DD-214

Steve Pitkin WSI testimony

Steve Pitkin WSI video clips -- February 1, 1971 (4:16, 1.6MB)

John F. Kerry
Timeline of a traitor.
Click Here

Guide to Local Media
Locate media in your zip code, gives you links to YOUR local media with phone, e-mail etc info.

Free Internet Fax Service
Free E-Mail to Fax from your computer, just fill in form on page , they do the rest.
Make sure you enter fax # like this 12025551212 (no spaces or -)

Is the number you want them to SEND FREE FAX covered?

Complete list of areas they SEND FREE FAXES to

6 posted on 09/07/2004 1:29:48 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (MAKE SURE YOUR YOU ARE CURRENTLY REGISTERED AND VOTE Nov 2nd!)
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To: Calpernia
"It's not a question of forgiveness, but of fitness."

-- John O'Neill

7 posted on 09/07/2004 1:34:03 PM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: Calpernia


12 posted on 09/07/2004 1:39:22 PM PDT by Soaring Feather (Poetry is my forte.)
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To: Calpernia

I swear, this Kerry stuff makes me want to puke. Add the Draft Dodger to it and you almost put me over the edge...

13 posted on 09/07/2004 1:39:26 PM PDT by StarCMC (It's God's job to forgive Bin Laden, it's our job to arrange the meeting.)
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To: Calpernia
Vets refuse to forgive Kerry for anti-war acts.

That's right.

14 posted on 09/07/2004 1:39:26 PM PDT by T Minus Four (From the Holy City of Hill Air Force Base, Utah)
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To: Calpernia
"Even while still a Navy man, he began traveling to antiwar rallies with leading war protesters such as Adam Walinsky, a former speechwriter for Robert F. Kennedy. "

He must have broken some military rules with that, one would think.

20 posted on 09/07/2004 1:44:53 PM PDT by QQQQQ
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To: Calpernia

bumpity bump bump

27 posted on 09/07/2004 1:51:22 PM PDT by tutstar ( <{{--->< Judge Greer allows violations of Florida Statutes)
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To: Calpernia

I purchased the video, "THE HANOI HILTON" at Wal-Mart recently and, I recall seeing the movie on television many years ago. I had a chance to watch the movie last week and believe this movie, more than ever, is something everyone should see considering the anti-war activities of John Kerry during the Vietnam War. POW's were tortured many times due to the actions of John Kerry, Jane Fonda and their friends in the media.

If you have an opportunity to view it I recommend highly that you see this movie. It is a glimpse of what the POW's went through while held prisoner by the Communist North Vietnamese. The video is available from Amazon and other online video stores.

From website: "Shot in the Dark"

"In 1987, Lionel Chetwynd's excellent Hanoi Hilton received widely-mixed reviews (many of them politically-motivated). Worse, its distributor essentially sat on the movie, under pressure from Hollywood leftists, for its treatment of Jane Fonda. The movie depicted life at North Vietnam's Hoa Lo prison accurately - but it changed the last names of the prisoners, and of their visitors, including Jane Fonda. An actress who represents Fonda ("Paula") does everything Fonda is said to have done while in the Hilton. That was one of several stories that Hollywood didn't want told (that and, of course, the moral of the story; the men survived because of their military training and warrior ethic). "Hanoi Hilton" was buried, received a tiny theatrical release, and is hard to find on video today. (Do it if you can - it's an excellent movie)."

On the back of the video box is the following endorsement from Ronald Reagan:

"Every American should see this powerful and moving film as a tribute to our POW's."

President Ronald Reagan



Genre(s): POW/MIA, Vietnam War

Cast: Michael Moriarty, Paul LeMat, Jeffrey Jones, Lawrence Pressman, Stephen Davies, David Soul, Rick Fitts, Aki Aleong, Gloria Carlin; DIRECTED BY: Lionel Chetwynd; WRITTEN BY: Lionel Chetwynd. PRODUCER: Cannon Films.

Review: A brutal drama about the sufferings of American POWs in Vietnamese prison camps. Non-stop torture, filth, and degradation.

Reviews on website:
Editorial Reviews


A true story about American soldiers interned in North Vietnam during the years 1964 through 1973, and their struggle to survive within the infamous prison complex they dubbed the Hanoi Hilton.

Reviewer: Steven R. Travers (CALIFORNIA) -

One lonely conservative voice has been trying to shout out from the "wilderness" for years. Lionel Chetwynd is a writer/producer who made "The Hanoi Hilton", which actually described the North Vietnamese as the evil torturers they were. The "Hilton" was the moniker given the infamous prison camp where American POW's were kept while Jane Fonda was flirting with our enemies. Liberal film reviewers criticized it. Do not believe them. It is good stuff.

The Hanoi Hilton, January 18, 2004
“I was in the Air Force during the war and have over 100 combat missions. This is the most accurate presentation of the war that is available. It is a story that needed telling and still needs to be told. It describes the situation of the American prisoners in Vietnam in an accurate and truthful manner. Everyone should see it.”

The Hanoi Hilton, April 25, 2001
“This movie shows what terrible hardships these prisoners had to endure. I had the privilege to talk to one of the wives of these heroes and she confirmed a lot of events shown in this movie. Also stated that she was not allowed to even mention that her husband was shot down for six-months. Tell her that this movie was "too long and over emotional"!! Most Americans just did not want to face reality during this sad time in our Country's history. I was there during 1966-1968 and in Saigon 1970.”
Internet Movie Database
User Comments:
Date: 14 March 2000
Summary: The Libs Hate This One

“Most especially, it accurately contrasts the quiet heroism of the POWs with the hypocrisy of the Hollywood Left, and their comrades in the news media; so much in fact, that it is really pretty amazing this film ever got made at all.”

Hollywood hates this film.

You can see a typical Hollywood review of this movie, where it is referred to as "Right-wing bullshit." Go to:

31 posted on 09/07/2004 2:06:51 PM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: Calpernia
This is an open invitation to ALL FReepers, veteran or not, Vietnam era or not. Please join us on September 12th as we tell the world that John Kerry was a liar and traitor then, just as he is a liar and traitor now

KERRY LIED . . . while good men died

A gathering of Vietnam veterans from across America

John Kerry told the world we were war criminals who raped, tortured and murdered in Vietnam. Now, thirty-three years later, we will tell America the truth.

Where: Upper Senate Park, Washington, D.C. It is easy to get to, shady and pretty, with a great view of the Capitol dome in back of the speaker's platform. THIS IS A NEW LOCATION AS OF 7/17/04

When: Sunday, Sept 12, 2004 2:00-4:00 PM (EDT)

Why: To tell the truth about Vietnam veterans and to counter the lies told about Vietnam veterans by John Kerry

All Vietnam veterans and their families and supporters are asked to attend. Other veterans are invited as honored guests.

Link to Printable Flier

If you are in DC on the 11th, look for the National March Against Terror.

Link to NMAT Website

In God We Trust…..Semper Fi!

38 posted on 09/07/2004 3:00:24 PM PDT by North Coast Conservative (Never Take a Gun to a Gunfight That Is Less Than .40 Cal)
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To: Calpernia
Even while still a Navy man, he began traveling to antiwar rallies with leading war protesters

And to Paris and colluded with the enemy,

43 posted on 09/07/2004 3:43:18 PM PDT by chainsaw (VOTE AMERICAN - VOTE REPUBLICAN)
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To: Calpernia

Click the logo to donate to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth!

44 posted on 09/07/2004 3:43:57 PM PDT by petercooper (Kerry passes up terror briefing: "They have offered to brief me. I just haven't had time.")
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To: Calpernia
"...And who had to stand in and fight for John Kerry after he left six months early?", said Mr. Sampley. Now, there is a sound bite that should be addressed!
56 posted on 09/07/2004 4:39:50 PM PDT by pointsal
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To: Calpernia; TheStickman

Damn, I'd never read that before.
Very enlightening.
It seems impossible, but he's even more dishonest, calculating and despicable than I thought.

Stickman, have you ever seen this?

57 posted on 09/07/2004 4:40:38 PM PDT by visualops (I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it.)
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To: jmstein7


71 posted on 09/07/2004 6:41:21 PM PDT by Calpernia ("People never like what they don't understand")
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To: Calpernia

The blood on Kerry’s hands

By Jim Bancroft, Sep 6, 2004


    Every action has a reaction. We sometimes refer to Newton’s Third Law in ways that do not refer to physical science, but to social and emotional constructs, events we see or hear of, events we perceive of happening or events that we experience ourselves.


    Newton’s Third Law of Energy is plainly stated as:


"Every action has an equal and opposite reaction"


          Our actions as young adults often shape our own lives in ways we do not consider at the time, nor can we foresee the results of our actions in how they affect others in the future. A single drive in an automobile can lead to an accident due to a loss of attention on the road, having tragic consequences for those involved.


    Engaging in political activity that is riotous, angry, and controversial, can also lead to unintended consequences, events that were never planned or foreseen, nor predicted.


    The willful engagement in activity that is riotous, angry, violent, or controversial; the drawing of attention to your cause by your actions: to see that your actions encourage or embolden others to join in with your cause should bring the greatest pause in your own personal behavior, for it must be plainly seen that your actions can then bring about unintended consequences that are outside of your own personal control, involving the emotions and reactions of others who you may or may not know.


    The more violent your initial action was, the reaction may be more violent, more controversial, more confrontational. And it will be you who initiated it because of your first actions, whether the end result was intended or foreseen or not.



    In my life time, I have seen my country and our politics change in many ways. As a child, I watched the Vietnam War on television; I saw the body counts, I saw the nation fixated on the war shown on the TV screen, I cheered on the troops, and I felt sorrow when I saw the caskets and heard of our losses.


    I also saw the anti-war protests on TV. I had to have my Dad explain some words and terms used by the Police in Detroit in 1968 after the riots in how they described the actions of the anti-war people who claimed to be for peace, but seemed to only come to fight and disrupt.


    Their actions had consequences. The American people started to see our media play over and again the masses of people who looked normal sometimes, but also some that were the Hippie looking type people. Mostly, we saw abnormal behavior portrayed on television and in the news as being common.


    We saw our nation change.


    One of the people who most affected us, was John Kerry. John Kerry’s association with these anti-war groups changed our nation forever. Most people see it, those that are over a certain age anyways, maybe not the younger, the have no reference to judge by. But, I am 45, and even in my age, I see it. But, I wonder how many others do.


    John Kerry’s actions, and the actions of those who openly protested against our country during the Vietnam War, made it socially acceptable to hate the US while living here, and to falsely claim what they are doing is Patriotism. The actions of the Vietnam protester were to make the call for Socialist or Communist type changes in our government system an accepted thing.


    But that is not all. By their actions, a war was ended earlier than expected. Not in a way that was in our favor, but in a way that embarrassed our country even though we were winning the war militarily.


    The actions of the anti-war groups affected national policy. We had anti-war groups start up earlier than 1968 when John Kerry entered Vietnam, true, but their acceptance and liveliness was not noticeable. It wasn’t until after John Kerry got home and started a group called Vietnam Veteran’s Against the War, VVAW, with his friend Jane Fonda that the openly socially acceptable participation in American anti-war activity took place in common American thought.


    This was a significant group, in that, for the first time in our nation’s history that I can find, a group of veteran’s who had fought in a war, founded a group that was against national policy in calling for the war to end; not with a victory by our armed forces, but with a defeat of our armed forces. This group was calling for our own nation, THEIR own nation, to remove all troops from Vietnam, admit that our actions there were morally wrong.


    They were calling for their nation to lose against the enemy, to give up the fight against the Communist system which genuinely threatened the nation of Vietnam since the late 1940’s and early 1950’s. And because of Vietnam’s geographic location, the seaways of South-East Asia would be threatened with a puppet government run by either China or the Soviet Union in direct opposition to the United States as a nation in order to spread their communist philosophy through the end of a gun.


    And they did all this with the backing of our national media, and with all the backing of the political party that was against the President who was in power. . . who had absolutely nothing to do with starting the war in the first place.


    These peace groups, led by John Kerry and Jane Fonda and Bill Clinton and their sort, caused our government to step back away from a national commitment to our allies in the South-East Asia peninsula, abandon our war against Communism in Vietnam, and in general, stop our pro-active response to the Communist threat that was a definite reality in the world then.


    I titled this paper, “THE BLOOD ON KERRY’S HANDS” for a reason, and that reason all goes back to Vietnam and the effect that his participation in leading a group like VVAW had on the United States and the world.


    The connection between VVAW and the peace groups and the early end of the Vietnam War without a US victory against the Communist forces fighting in South Vietnam has not been explored in depth by anyone that I am aware of. There are some things that are important to remember from this time period that can only be examined in hindsight; namely, What happened to the US and it’s policy in foreign affairs immediately following the Vietnam War, and why?


    At the time John Kerry left Vietnam, it was early 1969. According to records kept by the US government, by the end of 1968, the US losses in personnel were 36,152 persons killed in action from service in Vietnam from all causes.


     This is important for one significant reason: 1968 was the TET offensive, the last gasp of the North Vietnamese, a large offensive where the American people were told by a media that the war was un-winnable. But was this the case?

    Here is a short synopsis of just what happened during the TET Offensive of 1968:

Myth: The Tet Offensive Was a Communist Victory

The 1968 Tet offensive was a total and complete miltary disaster for the North Vietnamese Communists no matter how you look at it. If you measure victory by territory gained or enemy killed, the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong failed dismally in their attacks.

The NVA and VC had counted on a "People's Uprising" to carry them to victory, however there was no such uprising. They did exactly what the American military wanted them to do. They massed in large formations that were incredibly vulnerable to the awesome fire support the U.S. Military was able to bring to bear on them in a coordinated and devastating manner.

The NVA and VC attacked only ARVN installations with the exception of the US Embassy in Saigon. Despite reports to the contrary by all major television news networks and the print media, the VC sapper team of 15 men never entered the chancery building and all 15 VC were dead within 6 hours of the attack. They caused no damage to any property and managed to kill 4 US Army MPs, and one Marine guard. The South Vietnamese Police tasked with guarding the Embassy fled at the first sound of gunfire.

The NVA/VC launched major attacks on Saigon, Hue, Quang Tri City, Da Nang, Nha Trang, Qui Nhon, Kontum City, Ban Me Thout, My Tho, Can Tho, and Ben Tre. With the exception of the old imperial city of Hue, the NVA/VC were forced to retreat within 24 hours of the beginning of the offensive. In the process they suffered devastating losses among the southern VC cadres. Using the southern VC as the spearhead of these attacks was an intentional device on the part of the North Vietnamese politcal leadership. They did not want to share power with the southerners after the war, so they sent them out to what was inevitable slaughter. The NVA mainforce battalions were held in "reserve" according to Vo Nguyen Giap, in order to "exploit any breakthroughs".

In the first week of the attack the NVA/VC lost 32,204 confirmed killed, and 5,803 captured. US losses were 1,015 KHA, while ARVN losses were 2,819 killed. ARVN losses were higher because the NVA/VC, reluctant to enter into a set-piece battle with US forces, attacked targets defended almost exclusively by South Vietnamese troops.

Casualties among the people whom the NVA/VC claimed to be "liberating" were in excess of 7,000, with an additional 5,000 tortured and murdered by the NVA/VC in Hue and elsewhere. In Hue alone, allied forces discovered over 2,800 burial sites containing the mutilated bodies of local Vietnamese teachers, doctors, and political leaders.


    General Vo Nguyen Giap, the leader of the North Vietnamese Army during the war, had these comments to make concerning the efforts of anti-war protesters like John Kerry, Jane Fonda, and VVAW, which Jane Fonda was the co-founder with John Kerry; this article is reprinted from NEWSMAX:

Gen. Giap Thanks Kerry & Co. for Anti-war Protests

Celebrating the 29th anniversary of the fall of Saigon, the North Vietnamese general who led his forces to victory said Friday he was grateful to leaders of the U.S. anti-war movement, one of whom was presidential candidate John Kerry.

"I would like to thank them," said Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, now 93, without mentioning Kerry by name. "Any forces that wish to impose their will on other nations will surely fail," he added.

Reuters, which first reported Giap's comments, suggested that the former enemy general was mindful of Kerry's role in leading some of the highest-profile anti-war protests of the entire Vietnam War.

Before the British wire service quoted Gen. Giap, it noted:

"The Vietnam War, known in Vietnam as the American War, has become a hot issue in the U.S. presidential race with Democrat John Kerry drawing attention to his service and President Bush's Republicans disparaging Kerry's later anti-war stand."

North Vietnamese Col. Bui Tin, who served under Gen. Giap on the general staff of the North Vietnamese army, received South Vietnam's unconditional surrender on April 30, 1975.

In an interview with the Wall Street Journal after his retirement, Col. Tin explicitly credited leaders of the U.S. anti-war movement, saying they were "essential to our strategy."

"Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9AM to follow the growth of the antiwar movement," Col. Tin told the Journal.

Visits to Hanoi by Kerry anti-war allies Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and others, he said, "gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses."

"We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war," the North Vietnamese military man explained.

Kerry did much the same thing in widely covered speeches such as the one he delivered to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April 1971.

"Through dissent and protest [America] lost the ability to mobilize a will to win," Col. Tin concluded.

    These are not insignificant statements. These North Vietnamese military men are crediting the American Anti-War movement with being the reason they held out in time of war. The obvious conflict in this statement of theirs is, if there was NO ANTI-WAR movement in the US, these North Vietnamese military men would have NOT been optimistic about the outcome of the war. They would have been approaching the US in an attitude of military weakness, not military strength.


    This is undeniable. In fact, there are some more direct quotes from General Giap on this very subject.

Gen. Giap: Kerry's Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S.

The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping him achieve victory.

In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. - according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North.

That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going to blow up in Kerry's face."

"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these guys [Kerry's group], we would have lost," North told radio host Sean Hannity.

"The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert, encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who earned two purple hearts in Vietnam.

"John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands," North said.   

    Finally, what must be shown here, are the true and accurate statements of an American who was held as Prisoners of War in Vietnam, and a comment written by John Kerry’s own Executive Officer from when he served on the USS Gridley.

    This first statement below is an excerpt written to television host Joe Scarborough from Col. George E. "Bud" Day, the former cell mate of Senator John McCain in the Hanoi Hilton:

    I was a POW of the Vietnamese in Hanoi in 1971, and I am aware that the testimony of John Kerry, the actions of Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, and the radical left; all caused the commies to conclude that if they hung on, they would win. North Vietnamese General Bui Tin commented that every day the Communist leadership listened to world news over the radio to follow the growth of the anti-war movement. Visits to Hanoi by Jane Fonda and Ramsey Clark gave them confidence to hold in the face of battlefield reverses. The guts of it was that propaganda from the anti-war group was part of their combat strategy.

While the Commies were hanging on, innumerable U.S. Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Air Force members were being killed in combat. Every battle wound to Americans after Kerry's misdirected testimony is related to Kerry's untruthfulness. John Kerry contributed to every one of these deaths with his lies about U.S. atrocities in Vietnam. He likewise defamed the U.S. with our allies and supporters.

His conduct also extended the imprisonment of the Vietnam Prisoners of War, of which I was one. I am certain of at least one POW death after his testimony, which might have been prevented with an earlier release of the POWs.

. . . .

I draw a direct comparison of General Benedict Arnold of the Revolutionary War, to Lieutenant John Kerry. Both went off to war, fought, and then turned against their country. General Arnold crossed over to the British for money and position. John Kerry crossed over to the Vietnamese with his assistance to the anti-war movement, and his direct liason with the Vietnamese diplomats in Paris. His reward. Political gain. Senator..United States.

    This next excerpt is from Captain J. F. Kelly, who as Commander Kelly was XO of the USS GRIDLEY in the period of 1967 and 1968 when Kerry was aboard.

                   Every candidate for public office probably has some excess baggage to carry around that he’d rather not have. With Senator John Kerry, it’s undoubtedly his anti-Vietnam War activism that followed his heroic naval service in Vietnam

                   Aside from a Christmas card and an aborted telephone call, I didn’t hear further from John until I read about his anti-war antics including his appearance with Hanoi Jane Fonda and the famous episode of throwing medals onto the capitol steps during a protest.

                   While he was protesting against the war, many of us were still fighting in it. Many of us felt betrayed that one of our own, a decorated hero, would give comfort to the enemy by such actions. Think what you want about the wisdom in getting involved in that war, two presidents, both Democrats, committed the armed forces they commanded to fight it. Make no mistake; actions by the likes of Fonda and Kerry were damaging to our morale, gave aid and comfort to the forces we were fighting and altered the eventual outcome in a manner less favorable to the United States than if they had kept their mouths shut. The time for anti-war protests is before the war starts. 

            There is no question that John Kerry earned his decorations and that he put his life at risk in the service of his country. There is no doubt in my mind, moreover, that he has the intelligence to serve as president. But there is also no doubt in my mind that his anti-war activities while our troops were still fighting, dying and being tortured in filthy Vietnam prisons were despicable. 

            For that reason, even aside from his anti-defense voting record in the Senate, he is one ex-shipmate that I could never support as commander-in-chief of the armed forces.



    And that is the point of this letter. The actions of John Kerry and the anti-war protesters caused American men and women to be killed in war time in Vietnam, the very war where they insisted we withdraw and claim we were at fault; where Americans were all war criminals and “baby-killers”. And it was a war we were winning.

    According to American records, a total of 58,193 American personnel died in Vietnam from all causes, with 36,152 having died by the end of 1968 when John Kerry entered Vietnam. Kerry entered the Swift Boat Service in December of 1968 and served only 4 months before being sent home after his third Purple Heart.

    In 1969, 11,616 American personnel died, and that is the year Kerry started protesting against the Vietnam war after his service. He had already made public statements against the war at the speech  he gave at his Yale graduation:

"What was an excess of isolationism has become an excess of interventionism. And this Vietnam War has found our policy makers forcing Americans into a strange corner . . . that if victory escapes us, it would not be the fault of those who lead, but of the doubters who stabbed them in the back -- notions all too typical of an America that had to find Americans to blame for the takeover in China by the communists, and then for the takeover in Cuba.

"The United States must, I think, bring itself to understand that the policy of intervention that was right for Western Europe does not and cannot find the same application to the rest of the world.

"We have not really lost the desire to serve. We question the very roots of what we are serving.''

    Kerry’s actions after the war began as early as 1969 while an Admiral’s aide:

In October 1969, while Kerry was still on active duty assigned to Admiral Schlech, Kerry was flying Adam Walinsky (Robert F. Kennedy's former speech writer), around New York state to deliver anti-war.speeches.
BY Jan. 3, 1970, Kerry had become so inspired by Walinsky's anti-war beliefs that he petitioned Admiral Schlech, "to tell his boss that his conscientious dictated that he protest the war, that he wanted out of the Navy immediately so that he could run for congress."

Admiral Schlech consented and Kerry received an honorable discharge from the Navy six months early.


    Kerry was full force into the VVAW by early 1970. The anti-war movement was well known by then and many protests were held including the ill fated Kent State incident.

    John Kerry did not just protest in the US because of his beliefs, he also traveled to meet the Communist leaders of North Vietnam in Paris.

John Kerry, in sworn testimony before the Senate in April 1971, said he met with the North Vietnamese and Vietcong delegations in Paris in May 1970. He said they discussed their peace proposals -- especially the eight points of Madam Binh. Kerry strongly recommended that the Senate accept those proposals.

I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points...

…I realize that even my visits in Paris, precedents had been set by Senator McCarthy and others, in a sense are on the borderline of private individuals negotiating, et cetera.”

In the ensuing months, Kerry became even more strident in his insistence that the US accept Madam Binh's (and the NVM and VC's) peace proposals.

Meanwhile, other representatives of Kerry's group, the Vietnam Veterans Against The War (VVAW ), met with the NVM and VC delegations in Paris, in March 1971. They were even photographed sitting at a table with them, as in a photo displayed in Winter Soldiers, by Richard Stacewicz, page 284. 

Subsequently, VVAW representatives met with the North Vietnamese and Vietcong delegations on numerous occasions, both in Paris and even in Hanoi.

The VVAW even signed a treaty with the North Vietnamese which included all of Madam Binh's points, as noted by the historian of the anti-war movement, Gerald Nicosia, his book Home To War:

    The FBI has recently released the files on VVAW and can be found here, documenting the knowledge of Kerry’s visit to Paris to speak with the North Vietnamese:

    These actions in meeting with foreign leaders who are directly engaged in treaty negotiations with the United States Government border on treason.

Did Navy Lt. Kerry violate The UCMJ?
August 23rd, 2004

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) is a federal law, enacted by Congress. Its provisions are contained in United States Code, Title 10, Chapter 47. Article 36 of the UCMJ allows the President to prescribe rules and procedures to implement the provisions of the UCMJ. The President does this via the Manual for Courts-Martial (MCM) which is an executive order that contains detailed instructions for implementing military law for the United States Armed Forces.

The UCMJ states:


Any person who--

(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or

(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;

shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.

    John Kerry’s meeting with the North Vietnamese, the very people who are killing Americans in the war, borders precariously close to treason, enough to be investigated.

    What must be reinforced here, however, is the effect of these actions concerning the point of this paper: What did the North Vietnamese say about why they prolonged the war?

It was the American Anti-War movement.

    John Kerry was a part of that movement, a major leader of that movement.

    The North Vietnamese publicly stated that the American anti-war movement encouraged them to continue to fight.

    The next connection is impossible to avoid: John Kerry’s actions directly lead to American servicemen and women to be killed in combat because of the encouragement his actions gave to the enemy, the North Vietnamese.

    From 1970 until the end of American involvement in 1975, 9,586 Americans were killed in Vietnam. Killed because American anti-war protests encouraged the North Vietnamese to continue fighting the war.

    It is not a stretch to see that the actions of John Kerry and Jane Fonda directly lead to the deaths of thousands of Americans in the Vietnam War.

    Is this the only list of failures or deaths caused by the American Anti-war movement? Sadly, no.

    American foreign policy was changed dramatically after the Vietnam War. American military dominance was questioned, new weapons programs were held back, American intelligence operations were ended and our CIA was attacked and almost shut down, efforts to remain technologically superior were thwarted at times, and material replacement of military hardware was slowed or refused after 1975.

    American prestige was shattered globally. The newspapers of the world all spoke of the American loss in Vietnam, the movie industry put out movies showing Vietnam veterans as psychotic drug abusers or wife beaters and social misfits.

    But most importantly, it shattered American resolve to fight when necessary. The Democratic majority in Congress would enact the 1973 War Powers Resolution, forbidding the president from sending U.S. troops into combat for more than ninety days without congressional consent. Congress increasingly emphasized the limits of American power, and put a cap on the cost Americans would pay in pursuit of specific foreign policy objectives. The fear of getting bogged down in another Vietnam-like quagmire made a majority of Americans reluctant to intervene militarily in Third World countries. It caused American public opinion to sway and support a political party over another, even though the party portrayed in a negative light had nothing to do with causing the war and never received the respect it deserved with ending it without a total disaster for the American public had we followed the advice of the anti-war protesters.




    This lack of resolve showed in 1975 when the North Vietnamese invaded the South and began a slaughter, killing as many as 1 Million people, causing over 1.5 Million to 2 Million people to flee in small boats to save their very lives.

    This lack of resolve showed later that year when the Khymer Rouge began their systematic genocide in Cambodia, leaving the US powerless to intervene to stop the killing, and over 1 Million people were slaughtered.

    This lack of resolve showed even in 1979 when the American Embassy was overrun in Tehran, Iran, and then President Jimmy Carter failed to respond with forceful effort with our military in response to the new world threat: Islamic Terrorism.

    This lack of resolve showed when then President Ronald Reagan failed to fully make a military effort in Lebanon because of a lack of backing in the House and Senate.

    This lack of resolve showed when the Contras were supported for a year or two, only to have the Democrat Senate and House remove the means to provide for their actions against a Communist dictatorship in Nicaragua.

    By then, it was almost too late. American resolve was a joke. It took the efforts of Ronald Reagan to rebuild our military out of the shambles that Jimmy Carter left it. It took the efforts of George H. W. Bush in defending the nation of Kuwait in the first Gulf War.

    But, once again, an anti-war person came to the forefront, Bill Clinton, who during the 1990’s, ignored the obvious threat of radical Islam that the world was facing.

    And again, in 2001, with a lot of words, people like John Kerry started blaming someone else instead of the bad guys for 9/11. John Kerry voted for war against the Taliban, and then again voted for war against Saddam Hussein. 

    But what happened next? The Anti-War movement came out of hiding, and in a war where the enemy directly provided aide and support for terrorists who exploded bombs on American soil, anti-war activists have once again divided the American people, and John Kerry is one of their leaders . . .again.

    It is not that much of a stretch to see what happened from John Kerry’s actions in the 1960’s to today, and how people like him affected our national government policy through their activism and actions.

    By leading and organizing protests against the war, John Kerry encouraged the North Vietnamese to continue the war, and thousands of Americans died...

    Over a Million South Vietnamese died...

    Over a Million Cambodians died . . .

    American prestige was tarnished. . .

    Islamic terrorism was born and not stopped because of American reluctance to engage in combat after Vietnam, reluctance which was called the “Vietnam Syndrome” . . .

    Communism attempted to overthrow more countries in our own hemisphere . . .

    An anti-war leader, Bill Clinton, carrying on the same traditions as John Kerry, failed to stop the obvious growing threat of Islamic Fundamentalist sponsored terrorism . . .

    And now, we are engaged in a world wide terror war. The United States appears to be alone in it, too. All because of the pacifism and anti-Americanism of the American Anti-War movement of the 1960’s.

    That’s when it started in our generation.   John Kerry has blood on his hands.

Jim Bancroft is a former Marine who served in the United States Marine Corps from 1977 to 1981, and served off the coast of Iran for the Hostage Rescue Attempt of April 24-25, 1980.

72 posted on 09/07/2004 6:48:47 PM PDT by RaceBannon (KERRY FLED . . . WHILE GOOD MEN BLED!!)
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To: Calpernia
Vets refuse to forgive Kerry for antiwar acts

Wrong headline. Should be "Vets refuse to forgive Kerry for anti-soldier acts"

Kerry just didn't say that the war was wrong, he said that American soldiers were criminals.

74 posted on 09/07/2004 6:52:56 PM PDT by Poincare
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To: Calpernia

Kerry should've been court martialed BUMP

76 posted on 09/07/2004 6:54:08 PM PDT by lawgirl (is RNC bound! W here I come!)
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