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Kerry Navy probe to expand scope?(supplemental filing to Sec. of Navy)(by Judicial Watch)
WorldNetDaily ^ | Sept. 8, 2004 | Art Moore

Posted on 09/08/2004 2:45:06 PM PDT by QQQQQ

In an effort to push forward a Navy investigation, the public interest group Judicial Watch has made a supplemental filing to its complaint about John Kerry's official record, pointing out two of the three citations successively issued with the senator's Silver Star award were not signed by the secretary of the Navy, contrary to regulations.

As WorldNetDaily reported, Judicial Watch learned last week that the Defense Department informed Secretary of the Navy Gordon R. England of the group's formal request to investigate alleged military code violations in Kerry's Silver Star.

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: judicialwatch; kerry; kerryrecord; lawsuit; medals; militaryrecord; silverstar; vietnam
The title of WND is a bit of hype.

Judicial Watch is pushing it.

I think it's a good question, why is John Lehman's signature on the citation, when he said he never saw it, never signed it.

1 posted on 09/08/2004 2:45:08 PM PDT by QQQQQ
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To: QQQQQ
WND = Words of No Distinction.
2 posted on 09/08/2004 2:47:04 PM PDT by bcoffey (Bush/Cheney: Real men taking charge, talking straight, telling the truth.)
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To: QQQQQ

Judicial Watch has a long, loooong road back to credibility, in my book.


3 posted on 09/08/2004 2:47:16 PM PDT by martin_fierro (A v v n c v l v s M a x i m v s)
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To: Bob J; Interesting Times

More good news.......


4 posted on 09/08/2004 2:47:46 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Bush Democrats = Zell's Angels)
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To: kerryforreal?; Admin Moderator; hobson; BlessedBeGod; Samwise; bcoffey

Here is the link and the article that "kerryforreal?" tried to post earlier. (Kerry Navy Probe Getting LARGER!!!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210401/posts )

I personally doubt that a troll would post such article.

I think newbie just didn't know how to post an article.

"kerryforreal?" -- Please see how it's done, you need to post the actual title, can add clarifying remarks in paranthesis, if it's appropriate, and be sure to post the link next time, and an excerpt.

But it's an interesting find -- don't get discouraged, just do it right the next time. :)


5 posted on 09/08/2004 2:49:44 PM PDT by QQQQQ
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To: QQQQQ
Zippo Warrior

6 posted on 09/08/2004 2:49:56 PM PDT by Mark (Treason doth never prosper, for if it prosper, NONE DARE CALL IT TREASON.)
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To: martin_fierro

BACK to credibility? you mean they were credible at one time?


7 posted on 09/08/2004 2:52:33 PM PDT by ambrose (http://www.swiftvets.com/)
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To: hoosiermama

They are asking a legitimate question:

"Kerry citation a 'total mystery' to ex-Navy chief
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lips28.html

Former Navy Secretary John Lehman has no idea where a Silver Star citation displayed on Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's campaign Web site came from, he said Friday. The citation appears over Lehman's signature.

"It is a total mystery to me. I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me," he said.

The additional language varied from the two previous citations, signed first by Adm. Elmo Zumwalt and then Adm. John Hyland, which themselves differ. The new material added in the Lehman citation reads in part: "By his brave actions, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty, Lieutenant (jg) Kerry reflected great credit upon himself...."

Asked how the citation could have been executed over his signature without his knowledge, Lehman said: "I have no idea. I can only imagine they were signed by an autopen." The autopen is a device often used in the routine execution of executive documents in government.


8 posted on 09/08/2004 2:53:18 PM PDT by QQQQQ
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To: martin_fierro
Judicial Watch has a long, loooong road back to credibility, in my book.

"Back to credibility?" When were they ever "credible"? They have taken in $75+ million over the past few years. And never won a case.

9 posted on 09/08/2004 2:53:25 PM PDT by isthisnickcool (Only dummies play poker with George W. Bush.)
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To: QQQQQ

Just took a quick look at the PDF of the JW letter to SecNAV.

The NEW material here (well, new to me), is that JW's
theory is that the final (#3 Silver, #2 Bronze) citations
are evidence that the people who originally issued the
medals were not authorized to do so, and Kerry was trying
to paper over that.

Although it might just be hand-waving (something that JW
is notorious for), it will cause some members of the
emerging media to keep the issue in front of the electorate.
That is to say; every little bit helps.

Is it possible that the original Citations were forgeries?
And that Kerry had bungled the sigs?


10 posted on 09/08/2004 2:53:41 PM PDT by Boundless
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To: QQQQQ

Yes, Komrade the investigation continues. Hillary will see to it....


11 posted on 09/08/2004 2:54:36 PM PDT by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: QQQQQ

Here's the short version of the letter at:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2004/secnavkerryltr.pdf

Sent to SecNAV and IG
Raises issue of combat "V" on Silver Star (SS)
Quotes Lehman disclaiming involvement with SS Citation#3
Points out that earlier citations lacked authority
Suggests foul play ("autopen") on cit#3
Even if Cit#3 not a forgery, fails time limits on issuance
Questions 4 (vs. 2) stars on VSM
Points out Kerry's DD215, which added the VSM stars,
and failed to correct the SS+V


12 posted on 09/08/2004 3:15:34 PM PDT by Boundless
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To: QQQQQ

AND speaking of Bush's National Guard service . How come the RNC isn't running with the idea that Edwards could have defended his country instead of entring college in 1970 I believe ..


13 posted on 09/08/2004 3:42:08 PM PDT by Renegade
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To: isthisnickcool
They have taken in $75+ million over the past few years. And never won a case.

I am gonna ask Viguerie for some money. I cetainly could get more bang for the buck with 75 mil. Sheese.

14 posted on 09/08/2004 3:42:11 PM PDT by numberonepal (Whatever happened to freedom, liberty, and capitalism?)
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To: martin_fierro

Judicial Watch's record is about as impressive as JF'nK's senate record - (nothing notable accomplished).


15 posted on 09/08/2004 3:59:58 PM PDT by Mogollon
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To: Renegade; QQQQQ

> How come the RNC isn't running with the idea that
> Edwards could have defended his country instead of
> entring college in 1970 ...

Because the RNC never was going to touch the Vietnam
period. They thought it sufficient to call Senator
Waffle on his record and promises.

Update on the JW stuff:

> Sent to SecNAV and IG

This is just a letter - handwaving.

> Raises issue of combat "V" on Silver Star (SS)

Hardly news.

> Quotes Lehman disclaiming involvement with SS Citation#3

Ditto.

> Points out that earlier citations lacked authority

Contributors on the SBVFT site say that this authority
could be delegated, so this may be a dead end. What is
not a dead end, of course, is: why are there FIVE cits
for TWO medals, one entirely disclaimed by its purported
author/signer? Hello, legacy press. Wake up.

> Suggests foul play ("autopen") on cit#3

Not news.

> Even if Cit#3 not a forgery, fails time limits on issuance

A minor problem compared to the simple matter of the
existence of this document.

> Questions 4 (vs. 2) stars on VSM

Even the SBVFT aren't contesting this [yet].

> Points out Kerry's DD215, which added the VSM stars,
> and failed to correct the SS+V

Not news.

Bottom Line: A worthy effort, but mostly handwaving.


16 posted on 09/08/2004 4:07:33 PM PDT by Boundless
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To: martin_fierro

Cut them a little slack, Tom Fitton is and always has been a good man.


17 posted on 09/08/2004 5:07:49 PM PDT by Bob J (Rightalk.com...coming soon!)
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To: hoosiermama

Yes, GO JW!


18 posted on 09/08/2004 5:08:12 PM PDT by Bob J (Rightalk.com...coming soon!)
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To: Boundless

You keep suggesting that none of this is news. Maybe. How many times, prior to Judicial Watch, has this bee submitted to the Navy calling for an official investigation?

You act as if Judicial Watch is NewsMax instead of a legal firm.


19 posted on 09/08/2004 5:13:15 PM PDT by Bob J (Rightalk.com...coming soon!)
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To: Bob J

Eh.

Larry Klayman couldn't sue his way out of a wet paper bag, though.


20 posted on 09/08/2004 5:14:07 PM PDT by martin_fierro (A v v n c v l v s M a x i m v s)
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To: martin_fierro
You suffer from the preconception that lawsuits need adjudication to be successful. They don't. I'm not saying that's right, I'm saying that's the way it is.
21 posted on 09/08/2004 5:21:19 PM PDT by Bob J (Rightalk.com...coming soon!)
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To: Bob J

Ain't nothing you can teach me about the practice of law, sport.

Klayman is a huckster and his outfit is a joke. DO feel free to contribute away, though.


22 posted on 09/08/2004 5:23:19 PM PDT by martin_fierro (A v v n c v l v s M a x i m v s)
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To: Bob J

> You keep suggesting that none of this is news. Maybe.

My point was "what's really new here?" for someone who
follows FR and SBVFT.

Many people get a bit overexcited with JW's frequent
mischaracterizations of JW's efforts. As far as I can
tell, there is no formal investigation underway. The
letter was referred (rather than denied) and an
investigation may or may not result, and if one results,
the timetable may or may not affect the election.

> How many times, prior to Judicial Watch, has this
> been submitted to the Navy calling for an official
> investigation?

This is the only public letter that I know of, and was
certainly worth doing. Any number of SBVFT or other
interested parties may already have made requests and
not told us.

> You act as if Judicial Watch is NewsMax instead of
> a legal firm.

Their press releases tend toward hyperbole, and their
cases take forever to wind towards often-less-than-
-satisfactory resolutions.

Most legal firms do not publish press releases at
each step of their cases. If you've been following the
matter of SCO v. IBM, for example, SCO blabs at every
opportunity (and IBM is using their PR against them).
IBM has said el-zippo outside their filings. My money
is on the IBM approach.


23 posted on 09/08/2004 5:29:11 PM PDT by Boundless
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To: Boundless
> Questions 4 (vs. 2) stars on VSM

Even the SBVFT aren't contesting this [yet].

They won't question this point.

Kerry's Gridley cruise overlapped into two campaign periods (March-May 1968). His time on the Swifts did as well (November 1968-April 1969).

He legitimately received the four bronze campaign stars listed on his Vietnam Service Medal.

Vietnam Service Medal campaign periods

24 posted on 09/08/2004 5:31:15 PM PDT by Bob
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To: Boundless

Unfortunately, law firms like JW who take most cases on pro bono have to rely on the kindness of strangers to make payroll. Marketing and PR is central to their existence.

Except the ACLU.


25 posted on 09/08/2004 5:33:36 PM PDT by Bob J (Rightalk.com...coming soon!)
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To: martin_fierro

Klayman hasn't been with Judicial Watch for sometime. As someone who can't be taught anythng about the practice of law, you of all people would know the fist rule is having your facts in order.


26 posted on 09/08/2004 5:36:11 PM PDT by Bob J (Rightalk.com...coming soon!)
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To: martin_fierro
From reading this it sounds as though the "complaint" is just a complaint filed with the Navy IG office. That is very different from a legal complaint filed in a court of law. Of course the guy who answers the phone needs direction from higher up. The "inspector" in the IG office is probably about a GS-9 or something, and is about 7 - 15 layers to far down to do anything with an issue like this.

IOW it reads like more smoke blowing by JW to me.

27 posted on 09/08/2004 5:49:52 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: Bob J

Congrats on mounting what is possibly the lamest defense of JW I've ever heard.


28 posted on 09/08/2004 6:01:47 PM PDT by martin_fierro (A v v n c v l v s M a x i m v s)
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To: Bob J

Hey, how'd Klayman's Florida senate run go?

(Having had his ass kicked in both the Judicial and Legislative branches, my guess is ol' Lar will shoot for the Executive next)


29 posted on 09/08/2004 6:05:34 PM PDT by martin_fierro (A v v n c v l v s M a x i m v s)
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To: QQQQQ

Lehman was good. Webb better. Dalton the personification of "Pansy". Unfortunately, the current climate in the navy reflects much more Dalton than anything else. Bush/Rumsfeld could have reversed this...as Reagan did...and chose not to.


30 posted on 02/21/2005 10:59:19 AM PST by Meldrim
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