60 Minutes Documents on Bush Might Be Fake

CNS News ^ | September 9, 2004 | Melanie Hunter

[Owl558]

"But HOW do we get the word out about the fraud beyond the world of the Internet?"

Email. Pass the word along to everyone in your address book so they can pass the story to everyone in theirs. At some point, Fox or some other non-internet outlet will pick it up.

[Howlin]

Ahem, I am a dudette. :-)

And thanks to the people who did the legwork; I just put the thread up.

[william clark]

I understand that, but there are certain commonalities that really don't change, especially with regard to the first letter of a first or last name. My signature always starts out with an identifiably similar "B" and then goes to hell from there, but the "B" is always structurally the same. The "K" in "Killian" in these signatures is significantly different.

[Peach]

A font expert weighs in:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1211248/posts

[narby]

The guy on Little Green Footballs has superimposed the pdf of the memo from the CBS website with one he created with MS Word in Times New Roman 12. They are exact, perfect, inerrant duplicates.

Which proves that, what? MS copied an IBM executive (not selectric) typewriter font and spacing exactly? I would have hoped that they would.

If CBS has the originals, it should be a piece of cake to prove that they were at least done on a real typewriter (impact marks, etc.)

We're handing them lots of ammunition to fire back at us.

Believe me, if we would nail Dan Rather with this, I'd be jumping for joy. But I smell a trap.

[Owl558]

"Ahem, I am a dudette. :-)"

Sorry, I meant my comments with all dude respect.

I saw your handle and it made me think of General Howlin Mad Smith!

[Howlin]

No problem; lots of people use to make that mistake.

I'm a gull that posts like a really mean guy. :-)

[mtntop3]

< I truly salute the Freepers who did the analyses on this. Some of the most amazing investigations I've ever seen, and done in such a short time period too. >

Affirmative on that.

[TXBubba]

I never knew you were a dudette until today! I'm a bubbette but finally removed it from my tag.

[narby]

5--No way there were superscripts back then. No way. Even if it was theoretically possible (which it wasn't), the national guard isn't exactly an early-adopter of technology. This ability wasn't even available at any price for several years.

My understanding is that there were very high end typewriters with such things. Since these were done for the personal CYA file of this Lt Col. I'll bet he didn't even do them at the squadron. We're talking ANG, right? Did he have a day job? Maybe in a law office, with a secretary that would NOT have typed things exactly the military way?

I'm just guessing, but I think CBS is going to win this one, and they'll be able to trash us as idiots for pursuing it. At the same time, we're handing them attention on this subject, when we should be getting it behind us.

[gilliam]

Fonts are copywrited

[RetroSexual]

Which proves that, what? MS copied an IBM executive (not selectric) typewriter font and spacing exactly? I would have hoped that they would.

I understand your skepticism. I'm sure MS did implement the Times font very much as IBM did. But note that the word wrap is the same, also, despite the fact that the military used a different size paper. Also the line spacing. many things independent of the font seem to be just as word processed.
Looks very suspicious to me.

[ScreamingFist]

If CBS has the originals, it should be a piece of cake to prove that they were at least done on a real typewriter (impact marks, etc.)

Agreed, but what about the signatures on the memos?

[narby]

I understand that, but there are certain commonalities that really don't change, especially with regard to the first letter of a first or last name. My signature always starts out with an identifiably similar "B" and then goes to hell from there, but the "B" is always structurally the same. The "K" in "Killian" in these signatures is significantly different.

Secretaries often signed for their bosses. I'm going to try and find this guys resume somewhere. I'll bet he had a secretary in a posh office and that explains the non-military terms, high end typewriter and signature.

We're going to get embarrassed here.

(I really hope it's ME that gets embarrassed when someone nails CBS, but I'm afraid that CBS might just be right - these memo's are really worthless - we shouldn't even keep them in the press)

[Howlin]

Yep, I am. Nasty, are't I? :-)

[Buckhead]

Not to worry. Mash here: http://www.indcjournal.com/

They interviewed one of the top forensic typography experts in the world, and he is 90+% sure they are fakes, based on the font in the fakes not matching fonts on machines available at the time, based on an encyclopedic catalog of all available fonts.

That is to say noting of the dozens of other indicators of forgery which have yet to be refuted.

[Carolinamom]

Would it be possible to date the paper of the original?

[Peach]

Looks like the AP is trying to claim the WH released forged documents:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1211250/posts

[narby]

I truly hope you're right.

It'd be so great to nail Dan Rather for the Rat slime he is.

[mtntop3]

< But HOW do we get the word out about the fraud beyond the world of the Internet? >

No problem. It's called news competition - along with (equally important) not wanting to look bad. There's a point where they have to go with it. They may try to spin it, but they can not ignore it; and if they do, they only degrade themselves even further as news sources.

We are evolving into the stage where the media begins to blame Kerry and his people (It's not our fault, says the media, it's Kerry's).