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Rather Forgery Update: Hailey typewriter, Killian's secretary "th" found, Report release plan.

Posted on 09/29/2004 4:24:33 PM PDT by dickmc

The CBS Memo Forgery Report has now covers the recent Hailey "typewriter could do it" posting and Killian's secretary interview from the Dallas Morning News. Interestingly, the reported Olympia typewriter may well have been able to do a ligature "th" according to a previously unnoted post on the net at for September 11 at 1:27 A.M. However, as pointed out in the Report, the Olympia could not do proportional typing.

A link to the Report's updated final draft is shown at the end of this article. Rather than take your time with all the areas covered in detail, only the changes are highlighted here. If you want to see the entire report in its "final" form, you can use the links at the bottom to see it as a doc or pdf.

Changes beyond editorial minutia:

New Observations section in the Executive Summary:

1. CBS is commended for posting the Documents on their www site and thereby allowing access to them by all interested parties, including this Working Group. The few of us with gray hair in the Working Group fondly remember Walter Cronkite's reporting of the Apollo Moon Program. All of us on the Working Group hope that this Report's Recommendations will be received in the spirit offered and will help CBS News return to that level of esteem.

2. This Report's scholarly result is clear, unmistakable, and unambiguous: The CBS Documents clearly arise from an unbelievably incompetent and naive forger. There is no doubt of this as evidenced in the Executive Summary and the 52 succinct analysis points in the FINDINGS section, painful as this will be for CBS.

3. Nonetheless, the forged Documents do indicate a notable, almost Sirenesque sophistication in "story development," a factor that no doubt enhanced their appeal. For example, using Bath in an early memo, a name redacted in most, but not all, of the real document portfolios.

4. The validation of the Documents did not meet the rigor and thoroughness that would have been expected.

5. It is noted that advocates of "underlying truth" obstinately now assert that the forged Documents represent contemporaneous notes and feelings. If this were the case, notes could have been produced. Reconstruction of documents and signatures would still be a fraud. If "feelings" are all that remain, a rounded slate of interviews would have been appropriate. We observe, but make no further comment on, whether the "facts fitted the story" or the "story fitted the facts" as this is a journalistic matter for the Panel.

6. The undeniable purpose of the forged Documents was to influence a major Federal election. This makes operation of your Independent Review Panel, and CBS's subsequent actions, an extremely serious matter indeed. A chilling fact is: If the forger had used a typewriter and better researched Texas ANG protocols, that goal might well have been achieved!

7. The production and use of the forged Documents was calculated, wrongful, and quite possibly in violation of state and federal laws.

Modified Recommendation re Texas Law:

5. As the forging and the use of forged military documents, especially during a Federal election, is a serious and possibly criminal issue: formally notify the U.S. Justice Department, the Federal Election Commission, the Federal Communications Commission, and the appropriate State of Texas jurisdictions of the details relating to the acquisition and use of the Documents and fully cooperate with any subsequent investigation(s) and, if applicable, any resulting prosecution(s).

Addition to Item 7. re Hailey in Findings:

Dr. Hailey of Utah State recently surfaced the concept that the CBS Memos could have been produced on a typewriter by using a different font family. However, it is the position of the Working Group that Dr. Hailey's approach is fatally flawed circular logic in that it involved downloading an electronic font and then using a proportionally spaced word processor to simulate typing the 04 May CBS Memo. If such a hypothetical proportionally-spaced typewriter actually existed, Dr. Bouffard's definitive search for a typewriter would have already turned it up in Item 4. For Hailey see Although Hailey elaborately analyzed letter density from the photocopied-faxed CBS Memos, no letter misalignments were noted, a key telltale of typewritten documents, as contrasted with the well aligned word processor letters in the CBS Memos.

New Item 49. re Killian's secretary and Olympia Typewriter in Findings:

49. The secretary for Lt Col Killian's group, Mrs. Marian Knox, has stated that: "These (CBS Memos) are not real. They're not what I typed, and I would have typed them for him." According to the September 15 Dallas Morning News: "She said signs of forgery abound in the four memos….the typeface on the documents did not match either of the two typewriters that she used during her time with the Guard. She identified those machines as a mechanical Olympia typewriter and the IBM Selectric that replaced it in the early 1070s….Mrs. Knox also cited stylistic differences in the form of the notes, such as the signature on the right side of the document…She said that the culture of the time was that men didn't type office-related documents, and she expressed doubt that Col. Killian would have typed the memos." See the September 15th issue of The Dallas Morning News. Mrs. Knox did mention a "th" for the Olympia. But that would have been the single key ligature described earlier; not the word processor superscript used in the CBS Memos. For more information on that typewriter see for September 11 at 1:27 A.M. However, neither the Olympia nor the IBM Selectric could have produced the proportional word processor spacing used in the CBS Memos.


It would be most helpful for other Freepers to stand with us as additional "signers".
You would supplement the twelve we already have, and the additional four that have committed. A total of 20 to 25 would be great, as well as very helpful.
As you can see in the download, the electronically signed names would only appear on the personal copy of Thornburgh and Boccardi, who form the CBS Independent Investigative Panel, and on Heyward's and Lee's personal copy. Signatures would NOT be on the companion copies for their staffs nor on the www posting.
If you are willing to sign, and standup with those who have signed, please indicate below in a reply and I will get in contact with you by Freepmail.


The final drafts may be downloaded here as a MSWord97 document or here as a pdf. Editorial and other comments are still being gratefully received. Our final release date and mailing will likely be next Monday. We have already talked with Thornburgh's office.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 60minutes; cbs; ccrm; dncbs; forgery; killian; memo; rather; rathergate
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1 posted on 09/29/2004 4:24:34 PM PDT by dickmc
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To: dickmc
If you have already "signed", we have opened up a Yahoo group for any discussions or material that we may need to take "off-line". I don't know that we will ever need this group for anything, but you should probably go and sign-up. Membership of the group is moderated. It is restricted to "signers" and all of the: posts, post viewing, files, e-mail, and the like are similarly restricted. The group is at

Just click on the "join this group". Again this group is only for "signers" and membership restriction and access to any material in that group will be totally restricted. This will only be used if there are some details at some point that the CBS 60 Minutes Document Forgery Project Working Group need to discuss in complete privacy amongst ourselves.

2 posted on 09/29/2004 4:26:39 PM PDT by dickmc
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To: dickmc
"She said the military jargon in the documents would be used in the Navy or Army and not the Air Force. Also, she said the font used for the documents did not match fonts used on either the manual Olympia or IBM Selectric typewriters she used while working there."

"Though some have challenged the use of superscript typeface in the documents, Knox said the IBM Selectric typewriter she used when Bush was in the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron did have the capability to type in superscript."

This information was all over the place at the time.

Secretary to military officer says she never typed the memos

So what if the typewriter she was NOT using at the time of Bush's service had a "th" button.

3 posted on 09/29/2004 4:29:56 PM PDT by QQQQQ (Defeat Kerry. Support the SwiftVets. Keep the ads on the air.
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To: dickmc

Then it makes perfect sense. She Measured the centered Title s of each memo out to the fraction of an inch, then she ypes the memo on the proportional font typewriter leaving spaces for all the characters that she would alter type on the typewriter that could make those characters. She did all this for each of the memo's. Makes perfect sense to me.

4 posted on 09/29/2004 4:30:35 PM PDT by SengirV
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And Burkett's fantastic story about how he even got the documents puts it over the top.

5 posted on 09/29/2004 4:31:39 PM PDT by BunnySlippers ("F" Stands for FLIP-FLOP ...)
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Unfortunately we can not confirm that the Oympia was gone at that time from the office which is why it important to note that it's "th" was a ligature and that it did not do proportional type. If we don't cover this, someone else will raise it.


6 posted on 09/29/2004 4:41:30 PM PDT by dickmc
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To: dickmc

I will sign up with you.

How do I proceed?

7 posted on 09/29/2004 4:50:35 PM PDT by Dan(9698)
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To: dickmc
"She said that the culture of the time was that men didn't type office-related documents."

I guess I was anti culture! I always typed my own letters ever since I started working in the business in 1952. Secretaries were too slow and inefficient!
8 posted on 09/29/2004 5:08:34 PM PDT by dalereed
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To: dickmc

I think at this point it's accepted that the memos were fakes.

I wish people would dig up the connections and find out who forged the memo, at whose request and find out "What did Kerry, his campaign and the DNC know, and when did they know it?"

If the DNC is involved in the creation and dissemination of the memos, or even if they had copies, and they gave them to CBS, this is bigger than Watergate. But nobody seems to be looking into this part.

9 posted on 09/29/2004 5:11:14 PM PDT by QQQQQ (Defeat Kerry. Support the SwiftVets. Keep the ads on the air.
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To: dickmc
I have only one suggestion, which I'd made before. Early in the analysis, in bold type, include the following:

All parts of this filing are based on information compiled and available as of 29 September, 2004.

That will leave the door open for an addendum, if anything new crops up. New developments are more likely in the "who-done-it" category than the forensics of the forgeries themselves. But it's a good idea, and self-protective, to put in such a closing date.

John / Billybob

10 posted on 09/29/2004 5:27:51 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Visit: please.)
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To: dickmc
First, hanks for all the work you and all the others put into this. It is very impressive.

A few comments:

almost Sirenesque sophistication

(In point 3.) You lost me. I don't know what this means, except, if it is a refence to the Sirens in the Odyssey, I don't get the metaphor, especially when you mention the Bath redactions.

The validation of the Documents

(In point 4.) My personal opinion is that instead of 'validation', the report always say 'authentication', especially since Thornburgh is a lawyer.

A purely personal note: I do remember Cronkite and Schirra doing some Apollo coverage for CBS. I don't think Cronkite did Glenn's launch (he didn't become anchor of the 'CBS Evening News' until a few weeks after Glenn's Mercury flight), but the whole grade school I went to watched it on a black-and-white TV up on the stage, in the gym. The earliest I remember Cronkite was his hosting Prudential Insurance's 'The 20th Century' history program on Sundays. Maybe we could put that in as 'The 20th Century'? :-)

Cronkite grew up in Houston and went to UT for a while.
11 posted on 09/29/2004 5:30:05 PM PDT by Mike Fieschko
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Exactly! The logic here is staggering. Let's see a Ford Pinto had wheel covers, my Suburban has wheels, suburban could have made the same tire tracks as a Ford Pinto.


12 posted on 09/29/2004 5:32:32 PM PDT by SampleMan ("Yes I am drunk, very drunk. But you madam are ugly, and tomorrow morning I shall be sober." WSC)
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To: Congressman Billybob; dickmc

I agree with Congressman Billybob! That date is a good addition.

13 posted on 09/29/2004 5:48:19 PM PDT by ThomasMore (Pax et bonum!)
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To: dickmc

This story is like Rap "music", it can't seem to find an end.

14 posted on 09/29/2004 5:52:56 PM PDT by Old Professer (The Truth always gets lost in the Noise.)
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To: BunnySlippers

How did he get the memo?? (too busy running from hurricanes)

15 posted on 09/29/2004 6:11:15 PM PDT by highlandbreeze
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To: Congressman Billybob

Will place predominantly on the Table of Contents. Also, the cover page and the end of the Findings both carry a date.


How do you feel about having a discardable first cover page (before the real cover page) on the www download that has a red overlay something like:

"Please do NOT "spam mail" this document to CBS Stations, or for that matter to any other organization, unless they ask for an electronic copy.

The "CBS 60 Minutes Document Forgery Project Working Group" has worked long and hard on what we believe is a valuable and constructive Report. If you feel some agency or broadcast media should have a copy, please download it and print it out. That way your delivery will be far more effective than filling the recipient's computer with 600K of "spam", which we all know and love. Any kind of unsolicited "spamming" degrades the value of our effort and we ask that you respect our wishes in this respect.

Besides, sending a printed copy to the recipient will have a greater impact: It shows you cared more than simply hitting the SEND button. Additionally, a printed document is far more useful as the recipient can: think about it more carefully, mark it up with underlines, carry it to a meeting, read it on a commute or trip, or simply pass it around the office.

Again, the "CBS 60 Minutes Document Forgery Project Working Group" appreciates your interest and encourages you to download this document, save it, send it or the link to friends, etc. Please, however, respect our wishes and efforts and do not use this document as an unsolicited "spam mail" to anyone. If you think it is useful, print it and mail it. Thanks from all of us who worked on the document."

Or some similar words to that effect.

Regards, dickmc

16 posted on 09/29/2004 6:12:41 PM PDT by dickmc
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To: BunnySlippers

I've been out of the loop for the most part the last 3 days...what is Burkett's story about where he got the memos?

17 posted on 09/29/2004 6:13:14 PM PDT by Guillermo (It's tough being a Miami Dolphins fan)
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To: Dan(9698)

Thanks Dan.

Have sent Freepmail


18 posted on 09/29/2004 6:13:42 PM PDT by dickmc
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To: dickmc

That's an excellent suggestion, to encourage all who read this to hand-deliver physical copies to those who ought to see it. Should you say, "any organization you know, which should see this, including media, CBS affiliates, etc."?


19 posted on 09/29/2004 6:22:22 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Visit: please.)
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To: Guillermo
Someone named Lucy Ramirez saw him on a Hardball show in February 2004 and contacted him and said they had the memos. He went to the Houston Rodeo at a convention center and a male walked out of the crowd and gave him an envelope with the memos inside and disappeared into the crowd.

Lucy was worried about fingerprints so that Burkett went to Kinkos and photocopied the memos to get the fingerprints off. The was so spooked that he burned the originals in the Kinkos parking lot.

No one has ever been able to locate Lucy Ramirez or the male who passes the documents.

Do you believe it? :)

20 posted on 09/29/2004 6:26:39 PM PDT by BunnySlippers ("F" Stands for FLIP-FLOP ...)
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