WestConn panel gives Bush a 'W'

THE NEWS-TIMES ^ | Friday, October 01, 2004 4:35 pm EDT | Fred Lucas

[beaelysium]

Friday, October 01, 2004 4:35 pm EDT

THE NEWS-TIMES
http://news.newstimes.com

WestConn panel gives Bush a 'W'
http://news.newstimes.com/story.php?id=65394

By Fred Lucas

DANBURY — President Bush clearly won the first presidential debate and stayed on message, while Democratic candidate John Kerry failed to dispel the charge he is a flip-flopper.   That's the verdict of a five-member panel from the Western Connecticut State University debate team, assembled by The News-Times. The panel judged the face-off on a strictly policy debate standpoint.

"Bush was consistent in saying Kerry was inconsistent," said Tyler Balding, a senior member of the debate team from New Milford . " Kerry doesn't defend himself on the consistency question. Bush hinged his whole argument on that one point and Kerry was not meeting him where he should."

The panel voted 4-1 in favor of Bush.

Members agreed Kerry landed some important blows early in the debate, criticizing Bush for not catching Osama bin Laden, alienating allies and problems in Iraq . But, Bush defended each position well and was able to state why Kerry 's ideas would not work.

"Bush did an excellent job on policy and a good job explaining why Kerry was wrong on policy," said Jill Odierno, a senior from Queensbury , N.Y. " Kerry said what he would do, and Bush said you can't do that because of this, this and this."

The panel also agreed Kerry digressed too often from his argument.

"He mentioned Vietnam about six times and I just stopped taking notes," Odierno said.

Chris Kukk , a political science professor at WestConn and the debate team's coach, said Kerry was lost in conversation.

"He talked about being back in Vietnam and looking at KGB archives," Kukk said. "I want to hear facts, not anecdotes."

But Kukk, the only member to score the debate in favor of Kerry, said Kerry did better than Bush on making points.

"On a policy debate, I would give Kerry more points," he said. "I would give more speaker points to Bush. I'd give the win to Kerry , slightly."

Fernando Franco, a junior WestConn from Guayaguill, Ecuador, said Kerry started strong, but fizzled.

"The brightest point for Kerry was at the beginning when he brought out Haliburton. Bush didn't reply to the question well," Franco said. "But the most important thing Kerry could have done is turn around the argument that he's not consistent."

DEBATE EXCERPTS Associated Press

Excerpts from Thursday’s presidential debate at the University of Miami in Coral Gables , Fla. :

PRESIDENT BUSH :  "I believe I’m going to win, because the American people know I know how to lead. I’ve shown the American people I know how to lead. I have – I understand everybody in this country doesn’t agree with the decisions I’ve made. And I made some tough decisions. But people know where I stand."

SEN. JOHN KERRY :  "I believe in being strong and resolute and determined. And I will hunt down and kill the terrorists, wherever they are. But we also have to be smart. And smart means not diverting your attention from the real war on terror in Afghanistan against Osama bin Laden and taking if off to Iraq where the 9/11 Commission confirms there was no connection to 9/11 itself and Saddam Hussein, and where the reason for going to war was weapons of mass destruction, not the removal of Saddam Hussein.

BUSH:  "My opponent looked at the same intelligence I looked at and declared in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was a grave threat. He also said in December of 2003 that anyone who doubts that the world is safer without Saddam Hussein does not have the judgment to be president. I agree with him. The world is better off without Saddam Hussein ."

KERRY :   "This president has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment. And judgment is what we look for in the president of the United States of America ."

BUSH:  "We’re making progress. But the front on this war is more than just one place. The Philippines - we’ve got help - we’re helping them there to bring - to bring al-Qaida affiliates to justice there. And, of course, Iraq is a central part in the war on terror. That’s why ( Abu Musab al-) Zarqawi and his people are trying to fight us. Their hope is that we grow weary and we leave.

"The biggest disaster that could happen is that we not succeed in Iraq . We will succeed. We’ve got a plan to do so. And the main reason we’ll succeed is because the Iraqis want to be free."

KERRY :  "The president just talked about Iraq as a center of the war on terror. Iraq was not even close to the center of the war on terror before the president invaded it. The president made the judgment to divert forces from under General Tommy Franks from Afghanistan before the Congress even approved it to begin to prepare to go to war in Iraq . And he rushed the war in Iraq without a plan to win the peace.

"Now, that is not the judgment that a president of the United States ought to make. You don’t take America to war unless have the plan to win the peace."

BUSH:  "First of all, what my opponent wants you to forget is that he voted to authorize the use of force and now says it’s the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place. I don’t see how you can lead this country to succeed in Iraq if you say wrong war, wrong time, wrong place. What message does that send our troops? What message does that send to our allies? What message does that send the Iraqis?

"No, the way to win this is to be steadfast and resolved and to follow through on the plan that I’ve just outlined."

KERRY :  "Yes, we have to be steadfast and resolved, and I am. And I will succeed for those troops, now that we’re there. We have to succeed. We can’t leave a failed Iraq . But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a mistake of judgment to go there and take the focus off of Osama bin Laden. It was. Now, we can succeed. But I don’t believe this president can.

"I think we need a president who has the credibility to bring the allies back to the table and to do what’s necessary to make it so America isn’t doing this alone."  

Melinda Tarsi, a senior from Bethel , also thought Kerry did well on some points, but couldn't compete with Bush.

"Kerry had a lot of good facts," she said. " Bush was better at going on the offensive and attacked the holes in Kerry 's arguments."

[Paul_B]

Very surprising.

[marty60]

Yes, I thought bush won also. but then I'm not swayed by superficial body language and looks. Kerry's make up problems, manicures in a state ravaged by hurricanes, and his outright lies are not persuasive.

[lawgirl]

You'll be happy to hear this.

[TaxRelief]

Westconn!

[TaxRelief]

Westconn!

[tomatoealive]

The panel also agreed Kerry digressed too often from his argument.

"He mentioned Vietnam about six times and I just stopped taking notes," Odierno said.

 

I think that Bush said that "its hard work" about 30 times. I didn't count, but it seemed like an awful lot.

Bush seemed tired of having to defend against outright lies, it must be a bit demoralizing.  This is the worst sort of attack to have to defend one's self against in this country which Bush has worked so hard to defend as the land of the free, to see so many people while living in freedom, choosing to believe the lies and to reject entirely any discussion based on facts.

President Bush needs our support. He's the right man for this horrendous job of defending this nation from the attacks, which are originating not only from a clearly defined external enemy, but also from an insidious mendacious internal foe of freedom.

Bush has been through an unimaginable tough four years and is finding that instead of allocates and cries of well done, he is facing criticism not even based on fact, but on out right lies that are not corrected, but instead are referred to as opinion.

 

[Soul Seeker]

Bush won on substance. Kerry won on a Fluff issue-Style.

Bush edge.

[antonia]

Go Western Connecticut State University!

[Enduring Freedom]

BUSH WON!

Absolutely correct.

My epiphany came in the morning, after a nice restful sleep.

As I now awake, I am struck at how utterly devoid of substance and permanence are the statements of Kerry - lotsa talkin', but I can't remember a damn thing he said and learned absolutely nothing.

And if some think Kerry was presidential, it certainly wasn't American! He came across as a smug internationalist, sometimes an envious adversary, others the sinister enemy.

Bush had a dozen memorable moments of insight and personal connection that taught me more about the problems we face and the solutions available. He put himself squarely in America's corner, and that is all I need to know.

An involuntary smile overtook my face, and I knew - BUSH WON!

[antonia]

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[Huber]

Danbury rocks!

[partridge thatcher]

Kerry broke the rules. He brought written notes in his jacket pocket, while Bush followed the rules about not bringing talking points.