From a Slippery Slope to an Avalanche: Euthanizing Children"

Breakpoint ^ | October 5, 2004 | Charles Colson

[bear11]

Ping

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

The Netherlands has government funded healthcare, correct?

[Southside_Chicago_Republican]

"The Netherlands has government funded healthcare, correct?"

I'm reasonably certain it does.

[mickie]

Terri Sciavo bump......

[Nebr FAL owner]

Europe is in it's death spiral between the birth rate of "Europeans" as compared to the birthrate of un-assimilated muslim immigrants the attitude that euthanasia is not only ok but something to be encouraged & ever expanded upon will lead to a new dark age in Europe .

[Nebr FAL owner]

If I was the 88 yo that found out that the family wanted to off me due to illness there would be some serious rewrites to the personal will.

[Joe Republc]

bump and quick comment

If we can kill someone at the beginning or end of life, why not some other time? Esp. if it's a terrible inconvenience to the rest of us.

Also, there's a story I saw somewhere recently about parents pleading with doctors to keep their baby alive. But the law in Australia gives the doctors the right to determine this, not the parents.

-- Joe

[no more apples]

I have a friend in England who says they will have legalized euthanasia within 2 years! So, you are right in saying America is not far behind. After all, look where we are with abortion, gay marriage, polygamy...

[gridlock]

The Netherlands has government funded healthcare, correct?

And therein lies the problem. When the feeble and the old become a burden to the state, the "Right to Die" will quickly morph into the "Duty to Die". People who do not opt for euthanasia will be seen as greedy and irresponsible.

In twenty years, the person who consumes a half Million dollars worth of medical care at the end of life will be as derided as the "Welfare Queen" of the 1980s.

[theFIRMbss]

>I've "run into this" with so many family members also. I am wondering what they have read or watched over the last 20 years (it seems) that has changed so many of their minds SO much

My father passed on
a few months ago. Before
he died, he was ill

for three or four years.
I got to see in detail
how our medical

system treated him,
and other seniors I met
at his hospital.

It was terrible.
There are endless painful tests,
and throughout it all

people are treated
like machines -- opened up and
closed, parts removed, and

inside systems get
routed outside the body . . .
After a few years

of this, my father
had a long conversation
with his physician,

signed a DNR,
and also insisted no
"catastrophic care"

be used to save him.
I tried to reason with him,
but since I'd witnessed

the way today's care
kept people alive, I felt
torn with every word --

I wanted my dad
to live, but was grief-stricken
seeing him suffer.

I want to live, too,
but our medical system
reduces people

to meat machines, and
that amounts to chronic pain,
chronic medicine

and it amounts to
a daily life turned into
endless days of pain.

After seeing this
in dozens of seniors, I
know why they choose death --

They're not choosing death
per se, rather they're choosing
natural death, not

unnatural life.
The issue isn't clear cut
the way I once thought.

[Aquinasfan]

they're choosing natural death, not unnatural life. The issue isn't clear cut the way I once thought.

That's fine, but the provision of food and water doesn't constitute "heroic means" of sustaining life.

[Esther Ruth]

It IS horrible, I agree with you, the way things are IN SOME PLACES WITH SOME HEALTHCARE WORKERS, I know also, I have stories also, BUT 2 wrongs never make a right and their serving you up something wrong should not force your hand to do something you never intended, like die early!!!. They WOULD have you believe there is NO other option, basically my way or the high way, they perhaps would have you believe but - That is the way libs do things also, break a system that WAS operating fine (ie health care in 70s and 80s) so as to reign in their socialized medicine that is dispersed, as if one is at a state office handing out butter, boy you better be grateful and full of a guilt ridden, boy are we doing you a favor.

It is not so much WHAT they are doing that makes it all so difficult and unbearable. It is HOW they are doing. No one (workers) seems to want to be in these hospitals, nurses, techs, etc. When someone does come into a room that actually does like people and serving them it is like a most unbelievable ray of sunshine that can sustain you for quite awhile while undergoing this wretchedness.

However, we can't throw out the baby with the bath water. You can't go anywhere these days without bumping into alot of people who have bad attitudes and do not want to serve and are basically very selfish, of course you will find it in the hospital and health care. It's the cultural personality at this time in history, not the actual tests, procedures, treatments etc that are so wretched. The things we are able to do now, the technology, it is a miracle, a blessing - when it is not misused and abused.

Again, you can not throw it all out because there is some bad. Family members no matter what age must be watched by other family members (in the medical know) constantly!! They will try to shove drugs in you that you don't need. They will try to do tests that are not needed to run the bill up! No news - greed exists. I agree, one should get out of some of these h*ll holes as quick as possible to spare any more patient abuse but not at the expense of life.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

Republicans who will vote for Obama over Keyes have no problem with this.

[Southside_Chicago_Republican]

"Republicans who will vote for Obama over Keyes have no problem with this."

Sad but true. I was greatly moved by an account of a late-term partial-birth abortion that posted here a few days ago. I remembered seeing my own three sons being born and holding them as soon as they were swaddled. And then I thought of the innocent and helpless emerging from their mothers' wombs only to be immediately killed. How in the hell can anyone who has children, or cares about children, or cares about anything important, not even think for a moment about the horror of this?

The bill in Illinois to allow partial-birth abortion was supported by Barck Obama.

When the bill comes up for euthanasia, I think we know where Obama will stand.

[reagandemo]

Kind of reminds me of Soilent Green and Logan's Run. God help these misguided people.

[theFIRMbss]

>the provision of food and water doesn't constitute "heroic means" of sustaining life
>force your hand to do something you never intended, like die early

When the "provision"
of food and water requires
tubes forced down the throat

it's reasonable
for that person to decide
they'd rather not live

if their condition
showed no hope of improvement.
(I've talked to seniors

in exactly this
horrible situation.)
From a Christian view,

it is kind of strange
so many people react
as if death itself

were an inherent
evil. Christ often warned us
not to get attached

to this world, warned us
not to love life in this world. (1)
(And we know early

Christians followed Christ
because they had so little
fear of death even

Aurelius (2) was
unable to understand
what lay behind it.)

I don't think any
aspect of this issue is
straightforward to know.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

(1) John 12:24-26

"Most assuredly, I say to you,
unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies,
it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain.
He who loves his life will lose it,
and he who hates his life in this world
will keep it for eternal life. If anyone serves Me,
let him follow Me; and where I am,
there My servant will be also.
If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor."


(2) "What a soul that is which is ready, if at any moment it
must be separated from the body, and ready either to be
extinguished or dispersed or continue to exist; but so
that this readiness comes from a man's own judgement, not
from mere obstinacy, as with the Christians, but
considerately and with dignity and in a way to persuade
another, without tragic show." [Meditations, 11:3]

[Aquinasfan]

When the "provision" of food and water requires tubes forced down the throat it's reasonable for that person to decide they'd rather not live

Really? What's so bad about that? You don't even have to chew. I had my mouth wired shut one time and had to drink and "eat" through a straw for a month. It wasn't that big a deal. It was nice to get back on solid food again though.

[Esther Ruth]

John 12:24-26


We are to die SPIRITUALLY to the old man, THEN the NEW man can live. God is not telling us to DIE PHYSICALLY so as to be of some good and be able to be used. Talk about twisting scripture!!! Get behind me.....

If you are using this scripture to justify Mercy killings???? Well......

[RedwM]

So... Hitler wasn't so bad after all. (sarcasm of course).

[cpforlife.org]

I must meet these wonderfully courageous and progressive health care officials in the Netherlands!

As Queen of AmeriKa, and mistress of choice, I must congratulate their great advances for the Sacrament of Choice.

No unwanted or sickly child left alive!! Hail Molech!!!