New Pope Book Says Communism Was 'Necessary Evil'(Pope calls COMMUNISM as ""EVIL"" as NAZISM)

MyWay, (Reuters) ^ | OCT 7 2004 | Philip Pullella

[american colleen]

Still, I regret he did not have the same words as his predecessor to condemn more firmly what Hitler did to the Jews AND to Christians, especially to Catholic priests.

Please see post #35 and here's another short article (a little of it I posted below): "Pius XII as Scapegoat" on the subject of Pius XII and the Nazis - it's well worth reading. Pius has been unfairly excoriated by many in the last few years.

"From the beginning of his papacy in 1939 until well after his death in 1958, Pope Pius XII was honored with unfeigned warmth by Jewish leaders around the world. Golda Meir was uncommonly effusive in her praise of him. Trees were planted in Israel in his honor. In 1955, the Israeli Philharmonic Orchestra flew to the Vatican to give a special concert to show the nation’s gratitude. In 1940, Albert Einstein wrote a tribute in Time. At his death, tributes were universal and eloquent, especially by those Jewish groups closest to his efforts."

"A later generation, in contrast, has been exceedingly harsh. Why this stunning reversal? Whose interests are served? As it turns out, the spectrum of those who benefit by denigrating Pius XII is very broad."

[applpie]

you bring up a really good point and that is God's sovereignty...using both the evil and the good to accomplish his plans in the world yet I can see why people object to the term "necessary evil" with regards to the holocaust. i consider a necessary evil something minor like a shot maybe or a diet but not when millions of people are murdered.

[hedgetrimmer]

Here is the future of California brought to us by sustainable development. Doesn't it look like communism to you? (Think of the highrise housing projects in the movie farenheit 451)


Transit EcoVillages: Limited Equity Cooperatives Limited-equity cooperative housing is a form of multi-family housing that offers residents both affordability and management control.

Ownership Structure In a cooperative, whether limited-equity or market-rate, co-op members do not have ownership interests in the real property itself but in shares of stock in the corporation that owns the property

A primary purpose of limited-equity cooperatives is the development of a permanent stock of affordable housing. To accomplish this objective, all limited-equity cooperatives have resale restrictions. These restrictions are usually incorporated into cooperatives’ by-laws and into individual occupancy agreements. in the sustainable california, no one will be able to profit off increases in real estate prices (except the corporations that hold the land).


Many of the possible locations for transit ecovillages are above existing parking lots along the rail corridor. Since transit ecovillages are car-fee communities the parking lot would continue to be used for its current purpose, and the transit ecovillages would be built in the air space above the lots.

Transit ecovillages will use solar and wind energy, rainwater collection and greywater systems (water from the bath and sinks, treated, then used for toilets or landscape), edible landscaping, energy efficient fixtures, and resident car share.

Isn't this a great vision for what was once a free America? Your taxpayer dollars are funding this group you know.

[Rutles4Ever]

It may have been a "necessary evil" to save the world from itself down the line...

[Atlantic Friend]

Alas, I don't remember. It was a historical magazine in my doctor's waiting room !

[JSteff]

"Who says communism is dead? It is still advancing. But this time, it is happening globally"

Yes as socialism and the UN... new world order. It is more insidious because the presentation is actually accepted by the majority of citizens in the world.

They don't realize, or care to realized that nothing is free. With governments free always costs some right.

[hedgetrimmer]

Yes as socialism and the UN

It is called sustainable development and the UN began its implementation with the Earth charter in 1991. Using the environment to advance communism is quite ironic, given the environmental records of communist governments in the past.

[JSteff]

"From an evil human act, God brought forth a good greater than the evil which men did."

How could the good be greater than the original state of grace and knowing that existed before the fall? That is unless it is in the striving you view the greatness.

[frog_jerk_2004]

I ask because the historian was most likely a fraud.

[wideawake]

How could the good be greater than the original state of grace and knowing that existed before the fall?

According to the Catholic understanding, Adam and Eve were immortal before the Fall. They would have lived forever in Eden. A wonderful state, indeed.

Through their sin, men became mortal and subject to death - the wages of sin.

Christ's redemption of fallen man does not make us all earth-dwelling immortals in Eden.

It gives us something better than the earthly paradise, it gives us a heavenly paradise to dwell in - the New Jerusalem.

Adam's sin lost us Eden, Christ's grace won us the New Jerusalem - an even greater state.

[hosepipe]

[ Communism was a "necessary evil" that God allowed to happen in the 20th century in order to create opportunities for good after its demise, Pope John Paul says in his new book. ]

If he(the Pope) did say this then the Popes God is STUPID...
Pity.. he could'nt think up a better God..

[JSteff]

Thanks.
Very informative and well sourced.

[dangus]

>> I consider a necessary evil something minor like a shot maybe or a diet but not when millions of people are murdered.<<

Your faith in the love and power of God, in the face of evil is only as strong as your ability to comprehend that God would permit such evil. I hope and am confident that your faith is stronger than you portray it to be.

[JSteff]

Did you read 33??

[debboo]

It depends on what time it is on God's clock, remember, things are done on his time and on his plan.

[Aquinasfan]

And maybe the Holocaust was good, too, because it allowed for reduced anti-semitism after WW2 ?

Sheesh. Hard to stay Catholic when I read this.

Could God have prevented the Holocaust from happening? If not, He would not be all-powerful. If He could, why did He not? The only possible answer is that He allows evil so that greater good may come.

Remember that the greatest good is eternal life with God, not temporal happiness. The difference between eternal life with God and earthly happiness is the difference between the infinite and the finite. There is no comparison. Therefore, the Holocaust in some way must have served to bring more people to eternal life with God, which is God's ordaining Will for all men.

1 Timothy 2:3-4

This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved...

[Light Speed]

In 1933 the Vatican signed a Concordat with Germany making Roman Catholicism the only recognized religion in that country.
Signing the Concordat is Cardinal Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII). By 1933, he was the Vatican Secretary of State. Seated second from his left is Franz von Papen who was the Papal Nuncio to Germany. Standing at the far right can be seen the little known Vatican prelate, Montini, later to become Pope Paul VI.

Eugenio Pacelli (Pope Pius XII from 1939 to 1958)

Vice-Chancellor Franz von Papen with Hitler and Goebbels



Little Dollfuss (Dictator of Austria) with Cardinal Innitzer on the right, witnessing the proclamation of the new Clerical-Fascist Constitution in 1934.

The Spanish Catholic Hierarchy giving the Fascist salute at Santiago de Compostela in 1937.

Franz Von Papen

Vatican agent Franz Von Papen:..."The Third Reich is the **First Power,which not only recognizes...but puts into practice...[THE HIGH PRINCIPLES OF THE PAPACY] ( Der Voelkischer Beobachter,Jan.14.1934)

Comment:
To be fair..I should root around and post on the Corrupt Russian Orthodox Church..which conspired to see the Czar brought down....looted him 7 ways from Sunday of his Kingdoms wealth...then cut deals with the Communists.

If you were Jewish in that time....it was like book ends of death between the 2 corrupt religious systems which made cooperation with madness,cruelty and greed a new definition.

Like the U.N. of today...its.."We didn't know....we did not have the power to stop it"..blah blah.

And to make everything on the square...we cut to present day reality...where **Jewish leaders roll over and aquiese in regards to Jewish wealth stolen in WW-2...
Bronfman and the World Jewish Congress....grinning as **Arthur Andersen Accounting Switzerland div finds just a few Jewish accounts in Zurich....close the books now..everyone go home.

[Ancesthntr]

"But if your grandfather cannot understand how something as evil as the Soviet Union can be used to help bring about the salvation of man, he can never understand why evil exists. Ask the Jews who call their own slaughter, "holocaust." (The word means, "a holy offering.")"

First, my grandfather has been gone for nearly 27 years. You had no way of knowing that, but it is irrelevant anyway.

Second, I am Jewish. You are wrong in your assessment of why the Nazi's attempted genocide of the Jews has been referred to by a word that means "holy offering." There was nothing holy about it, nor was it an "offering" of any type. I (among many others) would suggest that the word "Holocaust" is highly inappropriate, and that those Jews who use it are religiously ignorant. The correct term is "Shoah," which means "calamity." For more details, see http://explanation-guide.info/meaning/Holocaust.html Go down to the very beginning of the text to see an explanation.

I also disagree that the full extent of Nazi or Soviet-perpetrated evil is necessary for the "salvation of man." This is because each of us obtains our own salvation (or not) depending on our own actions and choices. The vast, vast majority of people don't need to see or hear about tens of millions of other people being slaughtered in order to be able to contrast Good and Evil. In view of that fact, I find it difficult to believe that such an event was allowed by G-d to proceed in order to save a few spiritually dense people. We will probably never know the true reason or reasons for the Shoah - or any similar events - until G-d decides to let us know Himself.

[PMCarey]

That must be some comfort to the millions murdered, maimed or enslaved by communism, and their relatives, eh?

As opposed to what? That life is meaningless and that their sorrow and death was totally without meaning or hope?

[PMCarey]

Why didn't Jesus just turned himself in and spared Judas from suicide and (probably) hell?

Why did Judas commit suicide and thus condemn himself to hell rather than seek forgiveness and repent like Peter?