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To: killjoy
I am curious how many Muslims you know? Do you talk to them about what you are reading to find out what their opinion is? I have read more than my share of books about Islam and the Koran and if I based everything I know about Muslims just off of thoses texts, I would have a pretty bleak view also. Knowledge does not equal wisdom.

Sorry for the delay in replying to your post, I was away.

I won't tell you that some of my best friends are Muslims, but I have known a few here in the USA and the ones my son knew were very nice to him and he liked them very much.

I think you missed my point, my problem is with the teachings of Islam. The terrorists have not corrupted their religion, Islam corrupted them.

True followers of Islam or Muslim militants, those known and referred to as Islamic Jihad, Hamas, al-Qaeda, Jemaah Islamiyah, Hezbollah, the PLO, Black September, Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade, and the Muslim Brotherhood are thought about in the terms you yourself used, "animals" but no one seems to look for the source of their hatred and what drives them to act the way they do. These people study and follow the words and deeds of Muhammad, Allahs prophet and messenger as they are presented by the Koran, Tabari, Ishaq, and Bukhari.

The first four generations following Muhammad's death were some of the most barbaric peoples the world has ever known. But eventually, the once peaceful Arabs before Islam, became peaceful again. After 4 generations they lost their passion for their prophet's orders to fight jihad. The hundred years that followed was Islam's one bright moment in its 1400 year history. But then something terrible happened in Baghdad, the capital of the Islamic world. Hisham published Ishaq's Sira. Bukhari published his Hadith Collection. The Qur'an was written and distributed. Once again, Muslims were confronted by the hateful, covetous, and violent words of their prophet and god. They ceased being tolerant to their victims and ceased being productive as a culture. As to all the billions that follow Islam, in societies that are not free, the penalty for speaking out against Islam or Muhammad even today is truly severe. Where are the Islamic states with a free press, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, or even freedom of thought? Islamic studies dominate these state's education, the citizens of these states are indoctrinated, the Islamic war teachings are preached to them in every mosque as well as by the state controlled media, terrorists are portrayed as martyrs and idolized and the inductors of these terrorist use them to encourage the young to follow their path.

The older generation of Muslims don't know any better. They follow the ritual, are accustomed to being told what to think and do with very little outside information, questioners and outspoken independent thinkers are forced to submit or die. The younger generations are being indoctrinated from birth by different Islamic sources to be violent fundamentalist, this is what they learn in school, what they hear in the mosques and in street rallies and from militants who they have been taught to admire.

While there are plenty of Muslims who may be good and may not desire to hurt anyone, they are irrelevant if they do not denounce and renounce the teachings of Islam. If they don't accept all the doctrines of Islam as taught in the Koran and all the other texts I have quoted, then they are not true Muslims and I don't think any Islamic cleric will disagree with me. These "good" Muslims are thought of as "bad" by true followers of Islam.

415 posted on 10/08/2004 9:51:02 AM PDT by rotundusmaximus
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To: rotundusmaximus

An Israeli journalist looks at the wreckage of a car believed to be one of those used in the bombing of the Hilton Hotel in Taba, Egypt, Friday, Oct.8, 2004, where an explosion Thursday night killed at least 27 Israelis.

416 posted on 10/08/2004 9:56:49 AM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: rotundusmaximus
I agree with most of what you said although I disagree with your conclusions. You state, "no one seems to look for the source of their hatred and what drives them to act the way they do". You blame the source of their hatred on Islam and the teachings of the Koran. I disagree. This is not a religious issue as much as it is a political issue. Religion in this case is being used to further political gains.

This is very obvious with Iraq. Iraq was a secular government. Why was "God is Great" added to the Iraqi Flag in 1991? Did the government have a great religious conversion? No, it was done to further political goals. Saddam is still using Islam. Look at his dress when he was brought to court in Iraq. He is deliberately adopting a 'Muslim' look to gain sympathy. This is something he never had before. Why are the beheadings taking place in Iraq? If it was for religious reasons, they would not be demanding ransoms. They would not be offering payments to common folk to attack US soldiers. This is all about using religion to further political goals.

I have read enough of the Koran to know it is not for me. The same can be said about portions of the Bible and the Torah. Everything can be taken out of context and used as someone sees fit. Islam does not have a monopoly on hate. The difference between Christianity and Islam at this point is Islam is being actively used by people in positions of power, many secular, to further their political will. This has been done in the past with Christianity also and it can be argued that it is still happening in places. (I do not wish to get into a debate on the history of Christianity or Judaism.)

For me, this all boils down to the question, why are mainstream Arabs living inside of Israel not blowing themselves up like the suicide bombers? It is definately not because of a lack of ability or materials. I am not an expert on Israel, but my guess is because they don't suffer the same desperation that those in Gaza do.

In Thailand you have problems in the south with Muslim terrorists. The provinces in question are also some of the poorest areas in Thailand. They feel that they are ignored by the government because they do not fit into 'normal' Thai Buddhist society. There are also Muslims in other provinces in Thailand that do not resort to terrorism. Again, why?

It is much easier to blame Islam than it is to try to find the real causes of the problems. It is also easier to say that a bomb will fix problems that can only be fixed through education and the removal of poverty. Yes, war is 100% necessary and some people do need to die for there to be peace. The problem is it is only part of the solution.

417 posted on 10/08/2004 11:27:16 AM PDT by killjoy (Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain)
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