[Antoninus]

We never forgave the French for our first encounter with them, when they helped the Huron and it killed a few war chiefs.

"Never forgiving" was actually the reason wars never ended in the eastern woodlands. The wampum ceremony was supposed to allow forgiveness to take place and indeed, many hatchets were buried between the French and Iroquois. But it never stayed buried, unfortunately.

Yes, every single time we tried to negotiate with the French to avoid open war, we always excluded those tribes that were not part of our covenent chain - including french allies...

Not entirely true. The short-lived peace of 1645 was supposed to be a universal peace--at least the French thought so. In fact, as they later discovered, it was only a peace between the Mohawks and the French and their allies. The Oneida and Senecas continued to make war on the Hurons during this time--ironically with support from several Mohawks who went to help them because there was no fighting at the Eastern Door. The Iroquois tended to make peace in order to free up resources to wage war on other fronts.

Yup. It would have been bad if the Dutch hadn't been there - we would have been at a distinct disadvantage were it not for the Dutch Firearms early on...

Actually, it gave the Iroquois a distinct advantage. The French had a strict policy of not trading muskets to the Indians--even their allies. The only exception was for the occasional convert to Christianity. Thus, the Iroquois were able to field 50-100 skilled arquebusiers in the 1640s, while their enemies (again, except the Susquehannocks to the south) were still fighting with bows, knives, clubs, and steel axes. If not for this advantage, there's little indication that the political unity of the Iroquois would have been enough, in and of itself, to overcome the equally unified and populous Hurons, Neutrals, Eries, and Mahicans.

To prove this, the nation that caused the Iroquois the most difficulty and dread were the Susquehannocks who were similarly armed by the Dutch and Swedes. This was in spite of the fact that the Susquehannocks were considerably less numerous than the Iroquois and were consistently pressed on their southern and eastern borders by the English colonists.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Actually, it gave the Iroquois a distinct advantage.

Which is exactly what I said :0)

We don't disagree on too much. Maybe minor points, but over all we are on the same page, I think.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Maybe it's just me, but I found this t-shirt kind of funny:

Heh heh heh