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China sends more troops to N. Korea border(10K elite troops)
Straits Times ^ | 10/15/04 | N/A

Posted on 10/15/2004 3:50:56 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster

China sends more troops to N. Korea border

WASHINGTON - China has dispatched thousands of additional soldiers to its border region with North Korea, prompting an alert among intelligence officials in South Korea and the United States, says a diplomatic source here.

'Based on the US satellite photos and South Korea's human intelligence, the two countries concluded that China has recently deployed 10,000 elite troops to the North Korean border,' the source in Washington was quoted by South Korea's JoongAng Ilbo as saying yesterday.

Last Saturday, Japan's Sankei Shimbun newspaper also reported that China had sent 10,000 troops earlier this month to three border areas along the Tumen River, running between China and North Korea.

The Washington source said: 'China already has two divisions of troops guarding the border. Seoul and Washington are now analysing why China had to send another division of its best-trained troops to the area.'

China reportedly already has some 150,000 People's Liberation Army (PLA) troops stationed along its 1,400km border with North Korea, with which it signed a Border Cooperation Agreement in June.

In response, Beijing confirmed on Tuesday that it had deployed troops to the border, but denied media speculation that the move was aimed at stopping North Koreans from defecting or in protest against Pyongyang's continuing nuclear arms development.

In a related development, two North Korean refugees, including the wife of an economic official, were to fly to the US yesterday to seek political asylum, South Korea's Yonhap news agency said.

Ms Chang Sun Young, the wife of a senior state-run trading company official, and Mr Chung Sung Il, are to arrive in the US via Japan and Germany, Yonhap said.

Ms Chang has information regarding the family tree of North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, it said.

The two would be the first North Koreans to apply for political asylum in the US after the US Senate approved a Bill last month pressuring North Korea to improve its human rights conditions.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: border; china; chinesemilitary; elitetroops; mi; nkorea; pla; skorea; us
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They already have 150K at the border. Now they are sending additional 10K, some of their best. I doubt that they are send to deal with hungry N. Korean soldiers escaping with their guns.

Probably they are to seize N. Korean key facilities across the border if something goes wrong in N. Korea and power vacuum occurs.

1 posted on 10/15/2004 3:50:57 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: AmericanInTokyo; OahuBreeze; yonif; risk; Steel Wolf; nuconvert; MizSterious; Travis McGee; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 10/15/2004 3:51:56 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I thought that Jimmy Karter squared the whole region away with his visits. Hmm. Must have just been Dictator A$$-KISSING practice visits.


3 posted on 10/15/2004 3:54:16 AM PDT by gunnygail (Founding member of the VRWC. --Black Helo crewman. (I operate the Liberal tinfoil hat scanner.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

?......10,000......nothing here,... move on till.......1,000,000


4 posted on 10/15/2004 3:54:45 AM PDT by maestro
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To: TigerLikesRooster

fox guarding the henhouse


5 posted on 10/15/2004 3:55:41 AM PDT by NautiNurse ("I have a plan...We have better hair.")
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Ms Chang has information regarding the family tree of North Korean leader Kim Jong Il

That's going to take a while to list off.

6 posted on 10/15/2004 3:56:22 AM PDT by dementg
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To: TigerLikesRooster
As bad as the Chinese treat their own citizens, living under the Chinese would be paradise compared to living under the North Korean government. Maybe the Chinese are finally getting fed up with the North Koreans and are considering a little territorial expansion...
7 posted on 10/15/2004 3:57:48 AM PDT by apillar
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Is it possible that China would invade N. Korea?

Is there anything of value near where all the troops are?


8 posted on 10/15/2004 3:58:25 AM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (On this day your Prayers are needed!!!!!!!)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I can only guess China doesn't want a nuclear armed Japan next door which will likely happen if China doesn't get the situation under control.


9 posted on 10/15/2004 3:58:37 AM PDT by DB ()
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To: NautiNurse
Re #5

Well, this particular hen is a nasty one. But it is in poor health. That improves the odds.:)

10 posted on 10/15/2004 3:59:11 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: Calpernia; Velveeta; callmejoe; Alabama MOM; Letitring; DAVEY CROCKETT; StillProud2BeFree; Revel; ..

Ping


11 posted on 10/15/2004 4:00:26 AM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (On this day your Prayers are needed!!!!!!!)
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To: apillar

China needs more sea ports......and..... 'control'..... freaks is their game.....


12 posted on 10/15/2004 4:02:04 AM PDT by maestro
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To: nw_arizona_granny
A nuclear armed N. Korea is a threat to all its neighbors including Japan. If China doesn't do something fairly soon, China is going to find all its neighbors have also armed themselves with nuclear weapons. Some of those neighbors are not friendly to China. That is not in China's longterm interests.
13 posted on 10/15/2004 4:02:22 AM PDT by DB ()
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To: TigerLikesRooster

A Chinese invasion of North Korea could be several things:
1) a preemptive action to avoid a second Korean War involving the United States, South Korea and possibly Japan against Pyonyang.
2) another step in China's Anschluss. They've already moved into Hong Kong and another renegade island. This could be a training prelude to an invasion of Taiwan.
3) a measure to see to it that China is the only regional nuclear power. A nuclear North Korea could lead to a nuclear South Korea and a rearmed and possibly nuclear Japan.


14 posted on 10/15/2004 4:04:38 AM PDT by bobjam
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To: nw_arizona_granny
Re #8

Well, there are many secret underground military installations. This could also be an economically valuable area for Chinese because it would give Eastern Manchuria a direct access to sea. Currently, anything produced in Eastern Manchuria has to be transported by thousands of kilometers to the West to be loaded on ships.

15 posted on 10/15/2004 4:05:08 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Sounds like the time for some bilateral talks. <./sarcasm>


16 posted on 10/15/2004 4:10:09 AM PDT by Blogger (Pray for President Bush and our nation!!!!! The Lord is our Hope and Strength!!!!!)
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To: bobjam
Re #14

It is all three which China tries to achieve. This is a big move. China recently made waves on multiple fronts , which gave us enough clues to get some decent picture of what they are up to. I wonder how Americans reacts. So far they are quiet.

17 posted on 10/15/2004 4:11:11 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: nw_arizona_granny

America invaded Iraq. North Korea is next door to China and the North Koreans have been spilling over the border looking for food. I would not doubt that China would walk into N. Korea. It would be brown pants time for the south. The world may even cheer an invasion of North Korea. How sane is the leader of North Korea? Does China worry about being nuked by a crazy man?


18 posted on 10/15/2004 4:12:02 AM PDT by oldironsides
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To: nw_arizona_granny
I a agree with you on that, what better time then now, to take a advantage of the situation in Iraq, our troops in other places in th world.
China is watching our election, and they see that our nation is being weakened by the ( LEFT / LIBS / ANTI - WAR Group ).
The Chinses saw what happened to our country during the 2000 election, and they see that this time might be even a worse situation than in the election in 2000.
What better time now, to invade Korea.
19 posted on 10/15/2004 4:13:40 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The ( FOOL ) hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

let the Chinese bring "freedom" to the North Korea....


20 posted on 10/15/2004 4:13:51 AM PDT by FranceForBushInAustin
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To: Prophet in the wilderness

Don't let them fool you,, China, and North Korea's boss are chum chum buddys.


21 posted on 10/15/2004 4:20:01 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The ( FOOL ) hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: oldironsides

China is the premier destination for people trying to get out of North Korea.

Which should tell you a bunch about how bad North Korea actually is, that China seems so great by comparison.

As regards Chia Dictator's sanity?

He's a full-goose bozo whack-job.

And he either has nukes or is trying to finish making them.

China ( and every one else in the area0 has plenty of reason to worry about L'il Kim.


22 posted on 10/15/2004 4:31:03 AM PDT by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno-World!")
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Perhaps China is trying to protect it's emerging "middle class" from the same sort of devestation that the American middles class has seen.

I imagine a hop across the border for food and high wage jobs is getting pretty attractive to some of those starving masses right about now.


23 posted on 10/15/2004 4:35:52 AM PDT by CFW
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Good point there, Thanks!


24 posted on 10/15/2004 4:37:27 AM PDT by nuconvert (Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.)
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To: Prophet in the wilderness
Don't let them fool you,, China, and North Korea's boss are chum chum buddys.

That certainly accords with what I see: they are allies, with a strong treaty that neither has made any mention of revisiting that I have seen. There are delegations going back and forth; Kim Jong-Il himself went for a nice visit in April, and another delegation is sallying forth soon:

DPRK Delegation to Pay Official Goodwill Visit to China

Pyongyang, October 12 (KCNA) -- The delegation of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea led by Kim Yong Nam, president of the Presidium of the Supreme People's Assembly, will soon pay an official goodwill visit to the People's Republic of China (PRC) at the invitation of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress and the State Council of the PRC.

"Source": KCNA

It is my belief that you wouldn't see such going on if there were overt hostilities about to begin. Apparently, Prime Minister Koizumi from Japan is not welcome in the PRC merely because of his visits to Yasukuni. I would assume that if China were truly upset with its lackey state, it would also make it apparent to them via the cold shoulder.

For that matter, Kim was in Beijing just in April. If they wanted to terminate his leadership, they could have just taken him at that time. It certainly would have meant less effort than a full-scale assault across the border a few months later.

My guess is that Kim's satrapy is in no danger from China.

25 posted on 10/15/2004 4:55:55 AM PDT by snowsislander
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Hmm, you know.. The South Park movie had Hussein as the bad guy, and we know how he ended up. Now they got Kim as the baddie in their new one..

Funny if that works out again.


26 posted on 10/15/2004 4:58:50 AM PDT by Kornev
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To: TigerLikesRooster

The Chinese can roll over the N.K. soldiers any time they want. I can't imagine the U.S. is going to do much about it, except warn the Chinese about staying out of S. Korea. At this point, it's almost a humanitarian act.


27 posted on 10/15/2004 4:59:12 AM PDT by nuconvert (Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.)
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To: snowsislander
What I see going on now, is ( look at the facts )
China has nukes, North Korea has nukes ( I am not sure if south Korea has any nukes , can anyone do some research on that please ? ).
Japan does not have any nukes.
Do you think ? that our troops is going to deter China and North Korea to invade the south ( and maybe Japan ) if they ( China and North Korea ) has nukes ?
And the US has to read lightly in this matter, because they have those nukes ( thanks to BILLY BOB BILL CLINTON ).
Also, look at how the American peoples WILL for fighting the war in Vietnam back in the 60s, and look at how that same thing is happening now, ( NO THANK TO JOHN KERRY and the LEFT/LIBS/FEMS ) .
China knows , that we as a nation, is divided, polarized, and they see that we are weak now ( thanks to the left, dems, fems, libs ) .
They know, we have our forces in other parts of the world, I don't think, our troop force is going to deter them in Korea.
Also, China and North Korea sees this as their best opportunity to invade south Korea when they see what will happen during our election.
Let's HOPE GEORGE BUSH WINS IN A LANDSIDE by a LARGE MARGIN, because, the Chinese, and North Korea will take advantage of our weakness, and ciaos in our country during this election.
28 posted on 10/15/2004 5:16:59 AM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The ( FOOL ) hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: Prophet in the wilderness

History is full of chum chum buddies not exactly going through thick and thin :

- Chiang Kai-Shyek and Mao 1920-1929
- Hitler and Stalin, 1933-1941
- USSR and Red China, 1949-1961
- The Kennedys and the Maffia 1930-1962
- Jordan and the Palestinians 1948-1970

So we might witness another "happy couple" growing estranged... China needs some stability in the Northeastern front to pursue its southernly course, so I suppose they could play "liberators" to North Korea any time.

Kim is as mad a dog as History has ever seen, and when he'll begin to lose control on his famished population and anxious military, he could do ANYTHING, including launching nukes. We're not talking about Soviet chess players here - just about a stark raving mad guy. And China knows that.


29 posted on 10/15/2004 5:23:23 AM PDT by Atlantic Friend ( Cursum Perficio)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I wonder which 'elite unit' they're talking about. Depending on the source, it could be a division of the 15th Airborne Army, it could be a number of the RRUs and support elements, or it might just be a slightly better equipped than average division of regular troops.


30 posted on 10/15/2004 5:29:06 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (Got wood?)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

bump


31 posted on 10/15/2004 5:34:17 AM PDT by ConservativeVoice
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To: Steel Wolf
Re #30

I will let you know if I find anything.

32 posted on 10/15/2004 5:35:48 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: maestro

China needs more sea ports....

What? What evidence do you have for this amazing statement?

What sort of container volume is available from N Korea ports? What inland transport routes are available from the ports into China?


33 posted on 10/15/2004 5:41:07 AM PDT by bert (Peace is only halftime !)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Could you see the chinese supporting a military coup inside North Korea? If China moved troops into N. Korea do you think they would leave or do you think they would make a land grab?


34 posted on 10/15/2004 6:00:32 AM PDT by Ranger
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To: Ranger
Re #34

It is distinctly possible that China may support a coup in N. Korea. Once Chinese are into N. Korea, they would take all their time to leave.

Under this scenario, I envision some sort of partition, in which the area north of Pyongyang-Wonsan line could go to China, while the rest could go to America/S.Korea. It would be like the partition of Germany after WWII.

China wants a buffer state against America. America may not want China to take over the whole N. Korea. This arrangement could be acceptable to both China and U.S..

This is one of the possibilities

35 posted on 10/15/2004 6:25:14 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: TigerLikesRooster

China does a whole lot of business with South Korea. Nobody does business with North Korea. It is to China's advantage to take down that NK regime. I think they have gotten the green light from the U.S. to deal with it anyway they choose. I'd much rather have NK's nuclear arsenal in the hands of the Chinese than that nutjob running things in NK.


36 posted on 10/15/2004 6:39:15 AM PDT by RichardW
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To: beyond the sea; Atigun; Blue Collar Christian; Bobkk47; ex 98C MI Dude; Towed_Jumper; MineralMan; ..

MI Ping


37 posted on 10/15/2004 6:42:18 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.)
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To: All

"your Pyongyang be ready tin minit"


38 posted on 10/15/2004 7:01:42 AM PDT by The Toll
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To: Atlantic Friend
Re #29

Do you know that Kim Jong-il used to be a propaganda artist, an art director for state opera? I sometimes feel that he is living through his propaganda opera.

He goes in great length to project the image of a N. Korea exhorting and bearing down at its bigger neighbors, who are cowering under its feet.

Even when millions starved to death, economy is in a free fall, and they are begging/extorting food from outside donors, the twin doctrines of N. Korea are, "Kang-sung-dae-gook"(Strong prosperous great country) and "Sun-goon-jung-chi"(Military first policy.)

39 posted on 10/15/2004 7:04:23 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: bert
Re #33

Eastern Manchuria does not have sea ports located nearby. If they can secure decent port(s) at N.E. end of N. Korea, it will greatly accelerate the development of that region.

40 posted on 10/15/2004 7:08:35 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: maestro
"?......10,000......nothing here,... move on till.......1,000,000"

150,000 with armor plus 10,000 elite forces is pretty significant. A million troops aren't needed to rush across a largely undefended border. In fact, a troop buildup that large would tip off North Korea to start defending the border, and would be a logistical nightmare. Why not send 100 million troops? They won't need a whole lot if they decide to take Pyongyang.
41 posted on 10/15/2004 7:13:40 AM PDT by NJ_gent (Conservatism begins at home. Security begins at the border. Please, someone, secure our borders.)
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To: nw_arizona_granny
"Is it possible that China would invade N. Korea? Is there anything of value near where all the troops are?"

Yes. China taking North Korea would allow it to showcase its military power, would strengthen its position with Taiwan, would get American troops off the Korean penninsula and away from China's doorstep, would cause other nations in the region to gravitate towards China as a regional leader/protector, and would remove multiple potential nuclear threats from its doorstep.
42 posted on 10/15/2004 7:20:00 AM PDT by NJ_gent (Conservatism begins at home. Security begins at the border. Please, someone, secure our borders.)
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To: NJ_gent

In the moutains 150K really isn't that much. You would need alot just of service and support troops for an endevour like that.

Plus, Winter is coming along now. Why would you want to start something in the winter ?

The only Army that would want or need to fight in the winter is NK. Nov and April are the key times for them to move South. Maybe the CHICOMS are just saying no with a little bit a backing.


43 posted on 10/15/2004 7:24:39 AM PDT by Q6-God
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To: Prophet in the wilderness
"Don't let them fool you,, China, and North Korea's boss are chum chum buddys."

Not true at all. North Korea is China's local area junkyard dog. It distracts US and other regional military assets from Taiwan, which is good for China. That's why China throws a bone to North Korea every so often in the form of political defense or humanitarian/military aid. That being said, China understands perfectly that, like all junkyard dogs, North Korea could turn around and bite the hand that feeds it at any time. With conventional forces, North Korea's military would be obliterated trying to invade China. With nuclear weapons, however, Beijing is under threat of vaporization. It's in China's interests to remove North Korea's nuclear weapon threat one way or another.
44 posted on 10/15/2004 7:25:59 AM PDT by NJ_gent (Conservatism begins at home. Security begins at the border. Please, someone, secure our borders.)
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To: Prophet in the wilderness
Let's HOPE GEORGE BUSH WINS IN A LANDSIDE by a LARGE MARGIN, because, the Chinese, and North Korea will take advantage of our weakness, and ciaos in our country during this election.

The US had a show of strength this summer by conducting war games with 7 carrier groups in the pacific. A first for the US with so many carriers. We can still project military power.

45 posted on 10/15/2004 7:26:18 AM PDT by rudypoot (Kerry sold out the US for political gain before now and he is doing it again.)
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To: snowsislander

A goodwill visit? That sounds more like a cover for talks with China about how to avoid a military conflict. China has no problem engaging in bi-lateral talks with North Korea if it serves the interests of China. My guess would be that these meetings are essentially made up of someone from North Korea pleading with someone from China not to attack, and someone from China demanding they give up their nuclear weapons program. It looks to me as though China's dropping into some shotgun diplomacy.


46 posted on 10/15/2004 7:30:25 AM PDT by NJ_gent (Conservatism begins at home. Security begins at the border. Please, someone, secure our borders.)
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To: Q6-God
Re #43

Chinese are good at fighting in a frigid weather, too. Manchuria is a frigid place, more like Minnesota or Dakotas. Besides, in the winter, rivers are frozen. They won't need complicated river-crossing operation. They could roll over thick ice in tracked vehicles and trucks.

However, I am not necessarily saying that they are about to invade N. Korea this winter. They may or may not. We don't know. I believe that they try to be ready for all contingencies, though.

47 posted on 10/15/2004 7:34:38 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: Ranger
"Could you see the chinese supporting a military coup inside North Korea?"

Absolutely not. The last thing China wants is confusion and chaos in its nuclear-armed neighbor. China wants those nuclear weapons dismantled in a controlled-as-possible manner. Anything less than that risks seeing Beijing reduced to rubble.

"If China moved troops into N. Korea do you think they would leave or do you think they would make a land grab?"

China would keep troops there for a while as peacekeepers, but they would continue to respect the sanctity of the borders. To do otherwise would undo all the political benefits that come from taking North Korea while giving China little more than a hunk of worthless land filled with starving people. I wouldn't be altogether surprised if they gave control of North Korea to the South Korean government and declared the peninsula a united Korea. That would thrill people in South Korea and Japan (in North Korea as well, but they don't really count), and it would all but guarantee the total removal of US forces from South Korea.
48 posted on 10/15/2004 7:36:57 AM PDT by NJ_gent (Conservatism begins at home. Security begins at the border. Please, someone, secure our borders.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

All your borders are belonging to us.


49 posted on 10/15/2004 7:38:49 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Never corner anything meaner than you. NSDQ, De Opresso Liber.)
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To: NJ_gent
In fact, a troop buildup that large would tip off North Korea to start defending the border, and would be a logistical nightmare. ... They won't need a whole lot if they decide to take Pyongyang.

Large buildup or small, North Korea doesn't have the resources to defend their western border and the DMZ. The troops in place on the west are mostly to stop people from leaving. Were the Chinese so inclined, they could push through the border and make it deep into North Korea before running into any significant resistance. If they are able to convince a few key commanders not to oppose them, they could make it close to Pyongyang in short order.

There are a number of reasons why this might be desirable for both sides. Most likely would be the imminent collapse of the government. The leadership of the DPRK could flee to China, and the PRC wouldn't have to risk Korea being unified by the ROK/USFK military.

50 posted on 10/15/2004 7:39:44 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (Got wood?)
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