Posted on 10/15/2004 4:38:56 AM PDT by Clive
It will be some time before we hear what caused the submarine fire on HMCS Chicoutimi that killed Lieut. Chris Saunders, 32, father of two young kids.
All this week, Canadians have voiced sympathy for his widow and outrage at the federal government.
We can say that Chris Saunders died for his country, but we don't actually believe it.
Given Ottawa's perennial defence bumbling, we have to presume he died from the cheapskate incompetence of our own government.
Ottawa equips our soldiers, sailors and airmen with junk, and they die trying to make it work -- under-protected armoured vehicles, wrong-coloured uniforms, 40-year-old Sea Kings, out-of-date fighter jets, leaky submarines -- the story is forever the same.
At the same time, the feds spend billions every year for whole armies of slackers all over the country to do nothing and they call it "compassion."
The disabled submarine was purchased second-hand with three others from the Royal Navy in 1998, mostly through a cashless exchange for training facilities for the British Army.
The subs are all more than 10 years old.
That's three decades younger than our flying-coffin Sea Kings, but all four have reportedly been plagued by electrical malfunction, leaks and rust.
Not good enough for Britain, but good enough for Canada.
Good enough for Chris Saunders.
The Chicoutimi was cruising along at 20 knots on its first Canadian voyage, three days out from Scotland and bound for the naval base at Halifax.
The crippling electrical fire forced her to surface in heavy seas far off the northwest coast of Ireland.
Three injured crewmen were evacuated by British helicopters to Ireland the next day.
Saunders died, the other two are recovering.
Meanwhile, the remaining 54 crew were left to sit out a north Atlantic gale, helplessly drifting and rolling in 25-ft. waves for four or five days, too disabled to submerge, and with seas too rough to attach a rescue line from a British tug.
In one attempt, a crewman was swept overboard, but was saved by a Royal Navy diver.
I wonder what those crewmen thought of their country and their government as the cruel sea bashed and battered their 200-ft. vessel with weather she is supposed to avoid.
Apparently, their sister submarine, HMCS Corner Brook, had experienced a similar fire.
They will have known that.
I wonder what they thought.
I know what I thought.
This is Trudeau's Canada.
This is peacenik Canada, which sneers at Uncle Sam while relying on him for defence.
Instead of a real navy, we have a pretend navy, in which the main hazard to our ships is that our obsolete helicopters will fall on them.
You might recall that on Feb. 27, 2003, bound for the Persian Gulf war zone, a Sea King was lifting off from the destroyer HMCS Iroquois, but seconds later crashed back on the deck.
Two men were injured, bringing the Sea King casualty count to 111. The Sea King death count, mercifully, remained at 10.
They blamed that one on pilot and mechanical service error -- just as when someone is stabbed to death you can blame it on heart failure.
The real cause of our ongoing military embarrassments is the utter contempt of federal governments, especially Liberal ones, since the 1960s for national defence.
For the past four decades, Ottawa has largely abandoned its constitutional duty to defend us, while it invaded the provincial sphere with loser entitlement programs such as the Canada Pension Plan, employment insurance, the Canada Health Act, welfare funding and regional job creation.
This whole approach is backwards.
In an always-hostile world, a national government should maintain as large and credible a defence deterrent as possible, while local governments keep their own internal social entitlements as small and affordable as is reasonable.
It's a question of balance.
The vain death at sea of Lieut. Saunders is more sad evidence that ours is woefully out of whack.
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"In one attempt, a crewman was swept overboard, but was saved by a Royal Navy diver."
That is very impressive.
Great Article. Hope some libs in America read it.
I think there is a total of 28 Canadians who "get it."
Don't worry, when the chips are down, our "rough men ready to do violence" will still stand by your side.
While you hurl almost daily insults our president we will still mourn death at sea of Lieut. Saunders. At least this man had the courage to serve your country. That is what real men do, serve. I suspect that is exactly what LINK BYFIELD is doing for your country right now by telling you the truth. Ottawa has largely abandoned its constitutional duty to defend you is right.
Thank you Canada for the help you have given the neighbor to the south. Maybe we should harbor some of your criminals who run away from such a broken down military. Better yet maybe we should build a monument to them. I am sure we could get some money for it from Spain, France, and Germany. Nah, we won't do that. We know what a real hero is. Our country is full of them. There are the ones who don't talk about their purple hearts.
As a Canadian who gave up in 1990 and emigrated to the States, I am not surprised, although each governmental failure still is just so disappointing. The Canadian armed forces were man for man amongst the best in the world back 50 years ago.
Now, it's an obscenely embarrassing joke. The comments about the Navy consisting of second hand canoes and the artillery consisting of slingshots and BB guns are getting a little too accurate.
Most of the Candians who get it are living here now.
As a Canadian who emigrated to the States in 1990, I am not surprised, although I am very disappointed in every report that comes out of Canada w.r.t. the defense of the nation.
The comments about the Navy consisting of second hand canoes and the heavy artillery consisting of slingshots and BB guns are getting a little too accurate. Ottawa has acted criminally in not protecting the nation from its foreign enemies, instead putting its attention to making sure that gays can get married and divorced and other wonderful efforts to undermine the very fabric of society. Or at least to stop its deterioration.
Thanks again Clive for your postings
Regards
alfa6 ;>}
How pitiful. At the end of World War II Canada had the world's third mightiest Navy (after the US and UK). Right now, its Navy probably rates smaller and more impotent than those of some banana republics. Canada even had an aircraft carrier ('til 1970 -- during Monsieur Trudeau's first term).
Canada has the "European" disease, an even worse case of it than most nations on the other side of the Atlantic. Perhaps this tragic incident will stir patriotic Canadians to take back their country from the Left.
The lack of Canadian defenses isn't all bad. The South Carolina Militia could now take Canada when it becomes neccessary! That may happen sooner than later.
Actually, I would guesstimate that somewhere on the order of 50% (or more) or so of Canadians "get it", but they are not distributed in such a way as to result in representation in the house of commons proportional to their numbers.
I think Canadians, even the dough-headed ones here in Ontario, are coming to realize that we can't continue to pretend to exercise the perogatives of a sovereign nation if our military is a joke. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, but I get the impression that reality is starting to penetrate the thick skulls of those dough-headed voters.
I hate to sound like one of the Canada-haters, but I really do have utter contempt for a large percentage of my fellow Canadians - the ones who unquestioningly swallow gun control schemes that don't and never will work, supposedly contributory pension schemes like the CPP that are in reality nothing but regressive taxes, and so on.
Actually, our navy and its fleet of Tribal-class and city-class destroyers and frigates is probably one of the stronger parts of the Canadian Forces, at least on paper. In reality, chronic funding and manpower shortages mean that many of these ships are not ready for duty at any given time, although presumably they could be made so if needed in time of war.
The Canadian armed forces is not without blame in these problems, though. The upper reaches of the CF's ranks are bloated with bureaucrats and careerists, and political influence for regional reasons often results in some very poor spending decisions. Much money was, and continues to be, spent on keeping open bases that serve no real purpose, for example.
I used to work Canadian issues for the US Navy. Visited often. I was told that a member of the Forces can stay on active duty til age 55 w/o restriction. In the US we have a system of "up or out." If you don't make the next rank, you have to leave. It keeps our force lean and young. Seems like the Canadian Forces aren't interested in battle efficiency, but rather in reflecting the social mores of the leftists governments--resulting in a bunch of tired, energy-less personnel holding on for dear life 'til age 55. Having said that: I've been on board HMCS Halifax...beautiful ship. I've been in joint exercises with Canadian ships (in the 80s) and they performed brilliantly.
In my visits to Canada I noted two other things. My Canadian counteparts complained bitterly that the ships were almost ready to sink under the weight of ton aand tons of bilingual paperwork. If you have an engine manual that takes 1000 pages in English, you are also required (in PC deference to the idiotic bilingual policy) to have the same manual in French, typically encompassing 1500 pages. What's next, Inuit?
Secondly, the Canadian officers, like other Canadians I've met, were intolerably smug. They never missed the opportunity to say something like: "we Canadians are just like you Americans except we don't have racial strife and we have free health care." I was too diplomatic to point out the many weakness in the Canadian social and governmental strcutures.
I don't blame the Canadians for being parasites on Defense, but at least they ought to recognize that US taxpayers allow that to be the case, and resultantly they ought to hold their tongues and accept their shameful status quietly.
Why do you think that?
not unless they know how to bodycheck and deflect slapshots.
"we Canadians are just like you Americans except we don't have racial strife and we have free health care." I was too diplomatic to point out the many weakness in the Canadian social and governmental strcutures.
Good post and it points out how flimsy the rationale and how desperate need to find some reason to differentiate a Canadian from an American. It ain't easy being us, living next door to the biggest baddest guy on the block. Particularly after a few assholes up here poked him in the eye and woke him up to the fact we actually exist. Now that we are on America's radar screen, the conversion of our former national image as a lumberjack clad, moosebreathed, maple syrup swilling, stout but stupid hoser to a smarmy, smug, backstabbing, Anti-American peacenik will be tough to change.
My father served in the Canadian navy for 35 years, from the age of 17 to 53, retiring in '94. Of course, he went through the ranks of Able Seaman to Lt. Cmdr during that period, so I'd say he kept moving "up".
As to the rest of your comments, I have to say that you guys strike me as being rather over-sensitive at times. You're the most powerful nation in the world - do you expect to be loved by all the world, too? But it's true, there's a definite strain of knee-jerk reactionary anti-Americanism and desire to define ourselves by our differences to the US. In our defence, unlike most of the other anti-American places in the world, ours comes out the rather unique circumstances of sharing a border, a language, and mostly a culture with you. That doesn't justify it, but it does make it different from the anti-Americanism found in Europe for example, at least in my opinion. I think Canadian anti-Americanism comes out of the fact that we are so much like you, but overshadowed by your size.
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