The FairTax: A Trojan Horse for America?

JPFO ^ | 10/15/04 | Claire Wolfe & Aaron Zelman

[Willie Green]

Haven't seen anyone propose that Constitutional Amendment yet as part of the fair tax, and it is unlikely that it would pass.

Article I, Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The NRST is already Constitutional since a sales tax is also known as an "excise tax", just like that which is currently collected on alcohol, tobacco and gasoline. If there is a portion of the NRST proposal that IS unconstitutional, it is their redefinition of real property (specificly, new homes purchased by individuals) as a "consumable good". This Trojan Horse strikes a stake in the heart of fundamental property rights that have existed for centuries.

Our Founders have already debated this issue, and arrived at the method of taxation that is LEAST oppressive of our own citizenry and industry:

The First Federal Revenue Law

On April 8, James Madison, once again a congressman from Virginia, addressed the House. He went right to the point. Congress, he said, must "remedy the evil" of "the deficiency in our Treasury." He argued that "[a] national revenue must be obtained," but not in a way "oppressive to our constituents." He then proposed that the House adopt legislation, virtually identical to the unimplemented Confederation tariff, imposing a five-percent tariff on all imports....

...A single, uniform tariff, he insisted, had two advantages. First, it could be imposed quickly, which was important because "the prospect of our harvest from the Spring importations is daily vanishing." Second, it was consistent with the principles of free trade ("commercial shackles," he said, "are generally unjust, oppressive, and impolitic")

The uniform, flat-rate "revenue tariff" was not immune from tinkering and abuse by special interests, of course. For that reason, I could be in favor of a constitutional amendment that would modify the wording of Article I, section 8 to be similar to the changes that were proposed in the Confederate Constitution:

Article I, Section 8
The Congress shall have power -
1. To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises for revenue, necessary to pay the debts, provide for the common defense, and carry on the Government of the Confederate States; but no bounties shall be granted from the Treasury; nor shall any duties or taxes on importations from foreign nations be laid to promote or foster any branch of industry; and all duties, imposts, and excises shall be uniform throughout the Confederate States.

[Always Right]

That post had nothing to do with the discussion...

[Willie Green]

That post had nothing to do with the discussion...

What do you mean?
You're talking about the Constitutional authority of the so-called "Fair" Tax, aren't you?

[Always Right]

No, we were talking about Democrats using sales tax as a social engineering tool to tax items like guns out of existance.

[Willie Green]

Then my comment is still applicable because you'd have to restrict them from enacting different excise (sales) tax rates the same way they boogered the uniform, flat-rate revenue tariff with a much more complex schedule dictated by special interests.

[Buckeye Battle Cry]

The national sales tax is nothing more than the Value Added Tax. It's the trojan horse the socialists in Europe have been using for decades to finance their productivity choking socialist utopias.

BAD IDEA!

[tpaine]

Always Right wrote:

No, we were talking about Democrats using sales tax as a social engineering tool to tax items like guns out of existance.

Not true. - You and the articles authors may think you have established that hyped up point, -- but I can't see where.
Nothing in the Fair Tax bill, or in our Constitution, -- would allow such "tools".

[tpaine]

New homes purchased by individuals) are indeed a "consumable good", willie.

As you would know if you've ever had to repair one that was trashed by 'Zero Down' deadbeats.

[Willie Green]

Nothing in the Fair Tax bill, or in our Constitution, -- would allow such "tools".

What are YOU babbling about?

The "Fair" Tax is a stinkin' EXCISE tax.
They already USE that "tool" to tax the bejezuss out of tobacco, alcohol and gasoline.
Once they expand the excise tax to cover everything else sold at retail,
what's gonna stop them from attacking anything else they deem politicly incorrect to purchase?

[Willie Green]

As you would know if you've ever had to repair one that was trashed by 'Zero Down' deadbeats.

I'd never be stupid enough to sell one to 'zero down' deadbeats.
A home is an investment.
You better have good enough credit to give me my cash up front if you want to buy mine.
I'm not gonna fall victim to your stinkin' creative financing scam.

[tpaine]

Our Constitutuonal rule of law will stop them, willie. -- As long as there aren't too many slick willies allowing them to ignore our BOR's, that is.

[tpaine]

New homes purchased by individuals) are indeed a "consumable good", willie. As you would know if you've ever had to repair one that was trashed by 'Zero Down' deadbeats.

I'd never be stupid enough to sell one to 'zero down' deadbeats.

Plenty of banks do so, then hire guys like me to fix their stupidity. Nevertheless, homes are consumable, depreciable assets.

A home is an investment.

Keep it up, and indeed it is. Trash it & all you have is the land it stands on.

You better have good enough credit to give me my cash up front if you want to buy mine. I'm not gonna fall victim to your stinkin' creative financing scam.

How weird. Do you really think I have a home fiance scam willy? -- You need help.

[TexasTransplant]

what's gonna stop them from attacking anything else they deem politicly incorrect to purchase?

You, Me, Smith, Wesson, Colt...

 

I am so tired of people proclaiming their "subject status" and whining about what the Government will do.

Those so called "them" work for us!

 

It is aggravating enough for me to actually dream about giving the whiners of this great country a collective shake and one of those great old black and white Movie slaps... snap out of it

[Willie Green]

Blah, blah, blah...
A lotta hot-air tough-talk from a blowhard...
If Misters Smith, Wesson and Colt didn't rally to your cause when the congresscritters monkeyed with the income tax, they'll be just as lethargic when they dink around with the sales tax rates. Go blow smoke up somebody else's bunz.

[TexasTransplant]

I wouldn't waste the fine aromatics of this Cigar on your crusty unclean reverse PIEHOLE, your family made the right decision when they shaved it and taught you to walk backwards. I hope you enjoy your career partnership with the IRS, I assure you that Mr. Smith, Wesson and Colt would greet you when you come to audit me, I will emphasize the FACT that you IRS pukes work for me, I don't work for you.
When the IRS is History you may still find a Job in Telemarketing since everyone HATES you already.
Have a nice life, God has given every creature a purpose I don't know what yours or a mosquito's is yet, but I will continue to protect your God given right to exist no matter.

[Willie Green]

Plus I can always spot a liberal troll by the way they misportray conservative gun-owners as mean-spirited, anti-government kooks. Crawl back under your rock.

[TexasTransplant]

Plus I can always spot a liberal troll by the way they misportray conservative gun-owners as mean-spirited, anti-government kooks

 

What ???

Your smoking more than Cigars.

The Second Amendment does insure Freedom, it was meant to keep the "congrsscritters" Honest, but it was I who proposed reminding the elected that they serve us, not we serving them, You are the one that is whining about "they" doing unspeakables to us via the Income Tax, "You are the Liberal"

I never mis-portrayed Conservative gun-owners, I am one.

How is the "Fair Tax" anti-Government?  Does it not still fund the Government? The #1 thing it does is get rid of the IRS and shrinking Government control in our lives is a Conservative Plank.

In a few weeks you can flex your muscle too, I am sure Mr. sKerry will promise you to keep the IRS and it's Jack Booted Thugs (your job would be secure) and he would probably want to expand the powers and scope of the IRS, he would probably combine them with the BATF and put "your" Queen Hillary in charge.

Either whine or touch yourself, but not both at the same time. (With your limited attention span you keep losing your place)

[Willie Green]

I merely inquired how you were going to prevent legislators from tinkering with the sales tax rate the same way they tinkered with the income tax code.
You responded with a whacknut implication to utilize the ultimate last resort.
I'm relaxing and watching football on TV today, so I'm not going to waste much of my time "debating" such idiocy. But I DO want to thank-you for demonstrating how emotionally disturbed and unbalanced NRST advocates truely are.

[reg45]

FDR 'outlawed' using our gold coins as money. You could still own all the gold you pleased.

From 1933(FDR) until Nixon changed the policy, it was illegal for private citizens to own gold. Exceptions were made for jewelry and manufacturing. I worked in the jewelry industry in the late sixties - we had to account for every speck of gold. The government paperwork was horrendous.

[TexasTransplant]

Lost your place again?
When you have no argument, yell troll and go watch football.
(If you think our discourse has been a debate, then you are the whacknut)