Navy:Undesirable/General Discharges for Civilian Misconduct While on Inactive Duty Reserve Status

SECNAVINST 5420.174C ^ | 17 Oct 2004 | Original Freeper Research

[Mia T]

bump

[spycatcher]

This is why the Kerry campaign had the media focus so much on Bush being "AWOL" and a "deserter" etc. Very smart of them.

Attn Mr Koppel: "You've been had, Ted"

[USNA74]

Generally, SECNAVINSTs (SECNAV Instructions) are numbered according to topic and lettered according to sequential revisions made. So, the SECNAVINST in force on this issue, during the 70's, might have been 5420.174A or B.

There's a website for all SECNAV Instructions, but it only provides the current versions of instructions. Someone would have to have 174A or B in hard copy, I would guess.

[AndyJackson]

Until now, it has been the conventional wisdom of former military Freepers, including myself, that any misconduct committed by John Kerry while a civilian in an inactive duty status while still a member of the U.S. Naval Reserves would have had no impact on his discharge status.

Wrong. It was conventional wisdom here on FR that he was not subject to the UCMJ while in civilian status. His discharge status is a different sort of administrative proceding.

[deport]

Why the six year delay?

---

Don't start me to lying, but I've seen post here that an officer isn't automatically separated at the end of his duty but rather has to request separation. If it's not requested he goes into the an inactive Reserve status....

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Transfer_To_Standby_Reserve.pdf

[dilpo]

I have posted this on a couple of previous threads in the last few months but will do so again.

First: The actual Navy Honorable Discharge Certificate issued at the time when all duty including reserve obligation was completed was a DD256N. The DD214 is a form issued at the time of separation from active duty.

Second:

On the Kerry website is a copy of a letter notifying him of his honorable discharge. It refers toTitle 10, U.S.Code Section 1163 and says that a board of officers was convened pursuant to that statute to determine whether a reservist should be kept in the reserves. There is a DOD regulation that explains how this works. It is at 32 CFR section 100.5. At the beginning it states:

(a) Unsatisfactory participation in the Ready Reserve.

...

(3) When a member of the Selected Reserve is identified as an unsatisfactory participant and considered a possible candidate for involuntary transfer to the IRR or for discharge, a board of officers shall be convened, as required by 10 U.S.C. 1063 to consider the circumstances and recommend appropriate action.

Since this statute (10 USC 1063) is referenced in the honorable discharge letter one must assume that this regulation as it existed in 1978 was the one under which the discharge was granted. In other words he was discharged for being an unsatisfactory participant in the reserve.

Here is a link to the regulation:
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/julqtr/pdf/32cfr100.5.pdf

[prairiebreeze]

Freepers on a roll with research today ping

[Dr. Eckleburg]

And yet is seems like the Republicans should be able to find something substantive, lawful and damning to release about Kerry's dubious military service and discharge in light of the fact that Kerry is looming to become the leader of the Free World; Commander of the largest Armed Forces on earth; and moral as well as literal Commanding Officer to every 18-year-old enlistee in this country.

Cough it up, guys.

[Polybius]

FYI

[tazannie]

let's say all of these things prove to be true, and documented...
obviously Kerry knows all about it. what do you think he has prepared to defend himself? he's got to have something up his sleeve.

[Tacis]

I am glad to see that others are finally reaching the conclusion I reached months ago, the only thing that explains Kerry's continuing refusal to be honest with America is that his military records hide some terrible, terible stain. That could only be a discharge under other than honorable conditions. On what charges? We don't know yet, but treason, homosexual activity, drugs or comporting with an enemy woman seem most likely. Carter pardonded Kerry in 1977 and, after administrative papers, Kerry got his records revised in 1978 and got an honorable discharge. His prior wife, Julia, knows what happened as does her brother, David Thorne. In fact, Kerry's USNR disgrace may have been the gounds of her action in the post-annullment agreement. Maybe, that's why we may never know whether they split because he is a wife beater or a traitor.

But, again, even with more mendacity, Kerry lying every day about "integrity" while being dishonest about his background, there may be evidence available. If Kerry was pardoned by Carter, some public record must exist in the Office of the Pardon Attorney, Dept. of Justice, Washington (see DoJ site for details) and should be available in the public reading room or by FOIA request. Alas, no one in the left wing media would think of asking.

[Congressman Billybob]

When Kerry gave his "war crimes" testimony before Congress, and also when he met with the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese representatives in Paris, he was NOT a civilian. However inactive his service status was, he was still enlisted in the US Navy as his commitment was not completed. So his actions in those two instances WERE subject to the UCMJ.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column, "Mein Fuhrer, I Can Valk!"

[Polybius]

This thread was originally posted in Breaking News but has since been demoted.

The Kerry discharge story has only recently been developing "legs" with the Mainstream Media.

It seems to me that this new development is a smoking gun in that story and merits a place in Breaking News so that lurking journalists may know of it.

[prairiebreeze]

If it hasn't been suggested already, Thomas Lipscomb (sp?) at the NY Sun might be interested to see this.

Prairie

[pabianice]

Hey, Johnny! Here's something else missing from your bogus "Navy Record."

[E.G.C.]

BTTT!!!!!!!

[dvwjr]

Hmmm... One of my neighbors IS the Pardon Attorney at the Department of Justice. I'll have to ask about the public availability of such records...


dvwjr

[cake_crumb]

"I don't know about the Navy but in the Army soldiers that were discharged for discipline reasons that did not warrant a dishonorable discharge received a General discharge.A general Discharge could be upgraded at a later date after a period of good behavior and a review by some sort of board"

I believe it's the same with the Navy.

[Eastbound]

""serious questions as to why John Kerry only received an honorable discharge through the act of then President Carter, seven years after his discharge, and had to have all of his military citations reissued, on the same day, when he became a United States Senator in 1985. ""

This isn't clear as it should be. Was Kerry a senator BEFORE he received an 'honorable' discharge? Or was his dishcharge (other than honorable) reviewed and upgraded along with the re-issue of his citations in order to be eligible to be elected senator?

[cake_crumb]

"And yet is seems like the Republicans should be able to find something substantive, lawful and damning to release about Kerry's dubious military service and discharge in light of the fact that Kerry is looming to become the leader of the Free World; Commander of the largest Armed Forces on earth; and moral as well as literal Commanding Officer to every 18-year-old enlistee in this country."

As soon as Kerry signs the form 180 to release ALL of his military records, we can dig up the necessary paperwork. Getting Kerry to come clean and sign it is the problem.