Supreme Court: Provisional ballots in wrong precinct don't count [FL]

AP via TBO ^ | Oct 18, 2004 | unknown

[Mike Fieschko]

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- People who cast a provisional ballot at the wrong precinct aren't entitled to have their votes counted, the state Supreme Court unanimously ruled Monday, rejecting an argument by labor unions that the rule wrongly disenfranchises voters.

The court said that the law clearly states that provisional ballots must be counted only if the person was entitled to vote "at the precinct," and that the constitution gives the Legislature the authority to dictate voting rules.

Under Florida law, if a voter shows up at a polling place but officials there have no record of them being registered, they are given a provisional ballot. That ballot is then held until officials determine if the person was entitled to vote at that precinct and hadn't already voted.

If they should have been allowed to vote, the ballot counts; if not, it's thrown out.

But a group of labor unions sued over the ballot law, saying that it unconstitutionally disenfranchised voters who may not know their polling place. They argued that many people have new polling places because of redistricting, may have moved, or may have been displaced by a hurricane.

The court disagreed, saying that requiring provisional voters vote at the correct precinct is no more unreasonable than requiring that everyone else vote at the right polling place.

[kesg]

Excellent. Remember, if it ain't close, the Rats can't cheat.

[MrChips]

Will this reuling help to set a precedent to overturn the ruling in Ohio?

[Salvation]

You mean the Florida Supreme Court actually got this one right?

[Mike Fieschko]

Will this reuling help to set a precedent to overturn the ruling in Ohio?

Probably not. Different States, different laws.

[browardchad]

A common-sense ruling by the Florida Supremes?

Has hell frozen over?

[YouPosting2Me]

It doesn't seem that difficult. Just vote in the proper place. It's not like the polls are hundreds of miles apart if you end up in the wrong one!

Also, if you voted in the primaries you already know where to go (unless the hurricane caused a relocation). Still not rocket science (in fact voters could start searching/asking now so they won't be confused later!)

[Phantom Lord]

saying that it unconstitutionally disenfranchised voters who may not know their polling place.

Someone find for me the article in the constitution that even grants citizens the right to vote.

[Phantom Lord]

Will this reuling help to set a precedent to overturn the ruling in Ohio?

State law. So no.

[Phantom Lord]

They are still sore from the bitch slapping SCOTUS put on them in 2000.

[WoodstockCat]

two sets of rules for provisional ballots in two states? Doesn't this go to the heart of the 7-2 ruling in Bush vs. Gore on equal protection?
Has the Ohio Supreme Court ruled on provisional ballots?

[UncleSamUSA]

Excellent decision, and even more powerful because it was a UNANIMOUS decision. Meaning: No partisanship in just interpreting the state constitution.

Excellent.

[been_lurking]

You mean the Florida Supreme Court actually got this one right?

I watched some of the arguments on CSPAN. I got the distinct impression that many of the FL Supreme Court judges were still smarting from when the SCOTUS smacked them in 2000. The bulk of their questions to the AFL/CIO attorney were pleas for him to explain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that what he was arguing would pass muster with the SCOTUS.

The sticking point with the AFL/CIO attorney was "why should provisional voters be treated any different than other voters with respect to the voting rules created by the legislature?" The AFL/CIO attorney just couldn't seem to grasp that the FL justices were looking for some kind of cover from a Federal "equal protection" type firestorm. He never adequately addressed the problem from that standpoint.

[mabelkitty]

Funny how folks who are running for election protect their own asses.
This is the law that Toledo Judge overturned in Ohio.
Ken Blackwell making the rounds explaining "stop and shop" provisional ballots to the national media, because this will be overturned by the conservative Ohio Supreme Court, as well. He's laying the groundwork for Dems to look like morons if they try and fight it.

[byteback]

So now if someone shows up in the wrong precinct and isn't on the voter list he/she can't vote?

[cripplecreek]

Personally I'm concerned about early voting. I worry that many republicans will take advantage of these early votes, only to find them tossed out by a court challenge in the next couple of weeks.

[nomad]

We need to contact the party and DEMAND that they appeal that decision NOW.

[dfdemar]

Good.

[blues_guitarist]

"You mean the Florida Supreme Court actually got this one right?"

'Bout Time!

[UsnDadof8]

Yesss !!!

The Big Labor argument absolutely blows me away ! Disenfranchised ??? How hard is it to show up to a polling place, any polling place, give the elections workers your address, and receiving directions to the correct polling place ???

[Flux Capacitor]

----But a group of labor unions sued over the ballot law, saying that it unconstitutionally disenfranchised voters who may not know their polling place. They argued that many people have new polling places because of redistricting, may have moved, or may have been displaced by a hurricane.----

Whiiiiiiinnne. If you're so helpless as to be incapable of even finding out where to vote, then you have no business voting at all.

Has the makeup of the Florida Court changed since 2000? Decisions like this don't square with its attempt to steal the election then.

-Dan

[WakeUpAndVote]

All these sheeple need to do is call their local municipality. But, that too would mean they would know where they live, or that they would have to prove they lived there to begin with.

FL court got it right. If you are too stupid not to go to your own voting area and then you try to vote there anyway, then you are too stupid for your vote to count.

[been_lurking]

So now if someone shows up in the wrong precinct and isn't on the voter list he/she can't vote?

No, they can still cast a provisional ballot in the wrong precinct. The ruling says that these provisional ballots would then be found invalid because they were cast in the wrong precinct.

[Rummyfan]

Alright! One for our side. Now if we can get the decision overturned in Ohio......

It's very simple: if you want to vote, register and show up to vote where you are registered? How difficult can it be????

[finnman69]

FL SC gets it right. Oh man the DUmmies are gonna hate this.

[Jack Deth]

Don't break out the party hats and noise makers so soon, browardchad.

Though this ruling does cut a large chunk out of the DNC/Acorn voter registration flood and fraud marathon in Florida.

I'd heard on Rush's show last Friday that the counties that were hit worst by the recent hurricanes lean heavily Republican.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Since I'm guessing you're a Floridian.

Jack.

[gdani]

Ken Blackwell making the rounds explaining "stop and shop" provisional ballots to the national media, because this will be overturned by the conservative Ohio Supreme Court, as well

Well, except for the fact it's being litigated in federal court.

Next stop for the Ohio suit = the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit

[gdani]

Ken Blackwell making the rounds explaining "stop and shop" provisional ballots to the national media, because this will be overturned by the conservative Ohio Supreme Court, as well

Well, except for the fact it's being litigated in federal court.

Next stop for the Ohio suit = the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit

[Mike Fieschko]

Someone find for me the article in the constitution that even grants citizens the right to vote.

Art III Section 4. The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing Senators.

Amendment XV: Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Amendment XVII

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, elected by the people thereof, ...

Amendment XIX

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.

Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Amendment XXIV

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Amendment XXVI

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state on account of age.

Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

[NonValueAdded]

Someone find for me the article in the constitution that even grants citizens the right to vote.

In Florida:

Article 1, Section 1 Political power

Article IV [in its entirety] SUFFRAGE AND ELECTIONS

That is what SCOFla can rule upon, not the US Constitution. BUT, Article I, Section 4 and Article II, Section 1 of the US Constitution grant the power to decide how to hold elections to the states.

[Phantom Lord]

Sorry, forgot to add "for President."

[milford421]

What bearing, if any, will this decision have on the Supreme Court's decision in Ohio to allow provisionals to vote in any precinct?

[LadyPilgrim]

That sounds right.
But IF they do.......by some stretch of the imagination.
They don't count!!!
I can deal with that....I think....;-)

[Mike Fieschko]

What bearing, if any, will this decision have on the Supreme Court's decision in Ohio to allow provisionals to vote in any precinct?

IIRC, the Ohio decision was by a Federal district Court, the lowest on the Federal totem pole.

Rush talking about this now.

< /celebrity voice impersonation>

[kkindt]

The reason they want to vote in the wrong precinct is simple - they can vote twice with different IDs and not as likely to get caught.

[bill1952]

I'll answer that if it is okay.

Yes, that's correct.

Here in Port Saint Lucie, the eyes of 2 major hurricanes passed right over us, and the communities of Ft. Pierce and Vero (10 -20 miles north) were very hard hit.

Vero had a large amount of pre manufacfured homes, and many people really only had a few days of electricity in the whole month od September. That is also a heavily Republican area.

So, many here are more concerned with rebuilding, and we have to make every effort to get them to the polls.

[Joe Brower]

Florida Freeper

I'm compiling a list of FReepers in Florida for use in the upcoming elections.
If you want to be added, please FReepMail me.

[mewzilla]

Will the ruling in OH be appealed?

[Phantom Lord]

It might be, but this decision is not a precedent and has no effect on Ohio as it was in regardes to Fl. law.

[LadyPilgrim]

Yes! You're right about that.
The data-base is supposed to pick that up. And that's more than likely what the problem is, down there today.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Gee. The Union members can't vote twice. Thats a shame.

[Timeout]

Does anyone have that hysterical picture from the 2000 recount depicting the SCOFLAW as DONKEYS IN BLACK ROBES?

[gdani]

Will the ruling in OH be appealed?

Absolutely.

I suppose the only question is whether the U.S. Supreme Court will be weighing in on this issue before or after 11/2/04.

[hellinahandcart]

Has hell frozen over?

I can't tell. I just got whacked pretty hard in the head by a pig's wing.

[browardchad]

I'd heard on Rush's show last Friday that the counties that were hit worst by the recent hurricanes lean heavily Republican.

Generally correct. (Although there are now reports of massive fraud for FEMA assistance in heavily Dem Miami/Dade, which was hardly touched by the storms -- no surprise, but that's another story.) I'm not so sure that this will have much of a bearing on the Republican vote, since Bush's base is more motivated than the Dems.

I'm not breaking out the party hats, believe me. But this tactic, provisional ballots, was used in the '2000 election, where minorities showed up at polls (usually just before closing) and raised a ruckus because they weren't allowed to vote. The claim was that their registrations had been thrown away, when in reality, according to investigations by the Miami Herald, for instance, they were either not registered, not eligible to vote, or had already voted elsewhere. To prevent rioting and claims of discrimination, they were given provisional ballots. Of course, (unproveable) discrimination was still claimed, but couldn't be documented.

I'm not saying this ruling will stop the fraud, but it does make this tactic somewhat less effective.

[browardchad]

If you are too stupid not to go to your own voting area and then you try to vote there anyway, then you are too stupid for your vote to count.

It's not stupidity -- it's a deliberate, faudulent tactic which was also used in '2000.

It might be fun to joke about "Floriduh" voters, but blaming stupidity ignores the fact that these are deliberate, organized attempts, first initiated (and pre-planned) in '2000 -- a practice run for future presidential elections.

[Bigh4u2]

"Article XV.
Section 1. The RIGHT of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."

[Area51]

Calling Eric Holder, Eric Holder Isle 5 clean up.

It will be fun to watch the rats smear the Floriduh (Democrat majority) Supreme Court.

[Bigh4u2]

"Sorry, forgot to add "for President."


Who decides who will be president?

The Electorate.

And how does the Electorate make the determination of whom they will vote for?

The PEOPLE and their vote, determines who/whom? the electorate votes for.

Sheez.

[YaYa123]

my question as well, MrChips. We need the Ohio Supreme Court to judge the same way, but are we even sure the Ohio Sec of State has started an appeal?

He and Eric Holder were on one of the talk shows yesterday, and Holder seemed very sure Kerry would win Ohio "if every vote is counted". That's how he worded it.