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The Rise and Fall of the Wall-Declassified
The History Channel ^

Posted on 11/08/2004 7:28:41 PM PST by GoldwaterBooster

I knew it!! The History Channel special on the Berlin Wall on now says that De-classified Russian files say that Russians would have backed down if Western Allies had bulldozed the barb wire put up to start the Berlin Wall on August 12-13, 1961. The poor people of East Berlin were kept in prison for 28 years because Jack Kennedy was scared to challenge Nikita Khruchev after the collapse of the Bay of Pigs invasion just four months before. Appeasement never works. France, Britain, and USA had the right to full transit in all sectors of Berlin and if they had confronted the Soviets on the wall, a whole generation of young East Germans could have been able to escape to freedom.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: allies; britain; communists; france; germany; sovietunion; usa

1 posted on 11/08/2004 7:28:41 PM PST by GoldwaterBooster
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To: GoldwaterBooster

OTOH, it gave Ronald Reagan one hell of a message to shout out.


2 posted on 11/08/2004 7:30:33 PM PST by TADSLOS (Right Wing Infidel since 1954)
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To: GoldwaterBooster
If you tell people today Jack Kennedy would never have been reelected had he not been assassinated you will not be believed. It however is the truth.
3 posted on 11/08/2004 7:34:08 PM PST by BellStar (Oyez, oyez! All rise for the Honorable Chief Justice Clarence Thomas)
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To: TADSLOS

This is rather progressive for the History Channel.


4 posted on 11/08/2004 7:34:50 PM PST by eagle11 (The left can only find allies with those who plot to destroy western civilization.)
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To: eagle11

OK so appeasement doesn't work, but JFK had a possible nuclear holocaust to worry about. Just because he was a rat and didn't actually win his first term w/o a lot of cheating doesn't mean that most voters today don't have a favorable opinion of him. Don't piss off those swing voters!


5 posted on 11/08/2004 7:39:13 PM PST by polyester~monkey (4 Senate seats, 4 House Seats, and 52% of the popular vote: AMERICA HAS SPOKEN)
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To: GoldwaterBooster

I always thought that JFK was a lousy president. He did very little during his term of office, and he put the country through all sorts of crises with the Soviet Union because they figured he was a patsy after he backed down at the Bay of Pigs right at the start of his presidency. It was a terrible precedent.

I was in the military at the time, and while it was not a big deal I (and everyone else on active service) was extended for three months because of the Berlin crisis. Kennedy was trying to prove how "tough" he was. But he did nothing, and we all sat around and did nothing. He was constantly on the defensive as the Russians probed him for weaknesses.

Kennedy was the perfect instance of political imagery trumping actuality. Not that he was all that attractive if you saw him up close, but he was surrounded by worshippers in the press and in history departments. Kenneth Galbraith was just one of the mob of Kennedy image builders. Ugh.


6 posted on 11/08/2004 7:40:56 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: GoldwaterBooster

Appeasement is a failure. It never worked with the Third Reich, Soviet Union, and Muslims now.


7 posted on 11/08/2004 7:42:18 PM PST by Ptarmigan (Proud rabbit hater and killer)
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To: polyester~monkey

Go ahead and have a favorable opinion of JFK if you want to. But he was still very immature when he started in office at age 43 and he made a lot of mistakes his first year in office. The truth is the truth. The fact that he was martyred in 1963 and American mourned does not correct his mistakes of 1961.


8 posted on 11/08/2004 7:43:39 PM PST by GoldwaterBooster (Veteran of the Cow Palace in 1964)
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To: GoldwaterBooster

Actually, it wasn't a case of the US being scared are much as it was an intelligence failure. The CIA had no idea how fragile E Berlin was and had no idea that the Russians didn't care much for it. You have to understand that the US only got serious about the intelligence business during WWII. By the time the Americans got into the game, the Russians and Germans already had it mastered. We had so many hole and moles in BOB (Base of Berlin... CIA HQ at the time) that the Russians were leading us where they wanted us to go. Don't get me wrong, I would love to blame anything on a Kennedy. However, in all fairness, Berlin was an intelligence failure from the start due to Ivory Tower CIA post-civilian lawyers didn't have the first clue on how to turn key Communists and relied on trying to turn everyone who came off the train... then trusted them once they did turn.


9 posted on 11/08/2004 7:45:44 PM PST by DoctorEd (No, not that one, the other one.)
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To: BellStar
That's the GOD's honest truth,an inarguable fact,and if few know it,the we must educate them! :-)

JFK went to Texas,where he was shot,because he was going to lose that state,LBJ as VEEP or not,in order to shore up support.

10 posted on 11/08/2004 7:46:44 PM PST by nopardons
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To: GoldwaterBooster
I wouldn't be surprised if a further check of the files shows that they probably would've backed down if we'd kicked over the first roadblock that led to the Berlin Airlift crisis in '48.

Appeasement and indecisivness never accomplish anything good.

11 posted on 11/08/2004 7:50:25 PM PST by oldsalt
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To: nopardons
Yes I know I am from Texas. I actually lived about 5 miles
from Lee Harvey Oswald in Ft. Worth. Never Knew him I was 10 but from a very politically active family.
12 posted on 11/08/2004 7:54:03 PM PST by BellStar (Oyez, oyez! All rise for the Honorable Chief Justice Clarence Thomas)
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To: Cicero

I agree Kennedy was a lousy president...and an eastern elite on top of that.


13 posted on 11/08/2004 7:57:46 PM PST by shield (The Greatest Scientific Discoveries of the Century Reveal God!!!! by Dr. H. Ross, Astrophysicist)
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To: BellStar
I'm a bit older than you,but am also from a very politically active active family And remember well,that even the N.Y. Times was calling the JFK presidency a mess,prior to his assassination,and giving him virtually NO chance of being re-elected.
14 posted on 11/08/2004 8:07:56 PM PST by nopardons
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To: GoldwaterBooster

Having General Clay force Checkpoint Charlie is one thing .... but we sure did not force the blockade on the ground in the 1940s ..... so what makes you think that we were going to confront the Soviets when the Wall went up? Documents are one thing .... "Ground Truth" is another.


15 posted on 11/08/2004 8:20:04 PM PST by Yasotay
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To: GoldwaterBooster

A Democrat with no balls? I am shocked, shocked.


16 posted on 11/08/2004 8:27:31 PM PST by Malleus Dei ("Communists are just Democrats in a hurry.")
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To: Malleus Dei

The Berlin blockade was caused by agreements made by Truman years before Ted Kennedy. The Allies agreed to let the Russians control the access to and from Berlin through the Russian sector during his administration. Patton had the right idea of pushing the Russians back to their border before ending the war. They would never have gotten the German scientists that enabled them to become a nuckear power.


17 posted on 11/08/2004 9:08:01 PM PST by meenie
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