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To: skutter

The "Tariff of Abominations" provoked the South Carolina nullifiers to threaten secession until Andy Jackson threatened to hang them. Then some of the rates were reduced but the point is that these tariffs were voted in when the South had majorities in the House and Senate. Those tariffs affected the farmers of the West and North just as negatively as those of the South but the North had the initiative to build industries under their protection which, except for Virginia, was never done. Slavery prevented the South from modernizing and putting its capital into industry. No foresight killed any chance of success in the modern world.

There was no invasion by the North of a legitimate country.
By trying to destroy the Constitution the RAT Rebels forced Lincoln to abide by his oath and preserve and protect the Constitution.

It is a falsehood that there was ever a right to secede from the Union had there been it would have been spelled out as to how to do it. Nor would we have had a real constitution if there had been such a right. If you don't believe me just ask James Madison who proclaimed once in the Union always in the Union.

The only legal way to split the Union is through Constitutional amendment which was never tried. According to the Southern argument there was no such thing as a Constitution just a sort of list of suggestions. The DoI does not apply to this case since the means of changing the government was provided to the people within the Constitution. Nor was there any "tyranny" threatening the South prior to the War the only tyranny there was that run by the Slavers.

Protecting the Union and Constitution was not "tyranny" either since the latter clearly spells out the power to put done insurrections and rebellions.

There are no valid arguments to support the traitors who carried out the RAT Rebellion. Not one.


51 posted on 11/16/2004 2:06:31 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit

"Nor was there any 'tyranny' threatening the South prior to the War"

Let's see what someone of the time said:

In the following words by as typical a New Englander as Rufus Choate, lawyer, orator, and Senator from Massachusetts:

"The first duty of Whigs," wrote Choate to the Maine State central committee, "is to defeat and dissolve the new geographical party calling itself Republican....

“The question for each and every one of us is...by what vote can I do most to prevent the madness of the times from working its maddest act the very ecstasy of its madness--the permanent formation and the actual triumph of a party which knows one half of America only to hate and dread it.

“If the Republican party," Choate continued, "accomplishes its object and gives the government to the North, I turn my eyes from the consequences.

“To the fifteen states of the South that government will appear an alien government. It will appear worse. It will appear a hostile government. It will represent to their eye a vast region of states organized upon anti-slavery, flushed by triumph, cheered onward by the voice of the pulpit, tribune, and press; its mission, to inaugurate freedom and put down the oligarchy; its constitution, the glittering and sounding generalities of natural right which make up the Declaration of Independence...."

Shortly thereafter, John Brown invaded to incite insurrection.

The Morrill tariff passed the US House.

Abraham Lincoln was elected.

The US Congress authorized rapid improvements at Ft. Sumter, the constructon of modern steam warships, and authorized the President to make massive expenditures without its prior approval.

And the following was being said:

12/3/1860..... When Congress convened, several Republicans, especially from the mid-western states, “swore by everything in the Heavens above, and the Earth that they would convert the rebel States into a wilderness.”

“Without a little blood-letting,” wrote Michigan’s radical, coarse-grained Senator Zachariah Chandler, “this Union will not be worth a rush.”



61 posted on 11/16/2004 2:48:23 PM PST by PeaRidge ("Walt got the boot? I didn't know. When/why did it happen?" Ditto 7-22-04 And now they got #3fan.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
The "Tariff of Abominations" provoked the South Carolina nullifiers to threaten secession until Andy Jackson threatened to hang them. Then some of the rates were reduced but the point is that these tariffs were voted in when the South had majorities in the House and Senate.

Your usual economic and historical ignorance is showing again, fake-it. Outside of a few whiggish hotbeds like Kentucky, southern opposition to the tariff was consistent and pronounced on every single major protection vote from 1820 to 1861. That includes the tariff bills of 1820, 1824, 1828, 1832, 1833, 1842, 1846, 1857, and 1861.

Those tariffs affected the farmers of the West and North just as negatively as those of the South

Actually, no they didn't. They affected everybody negatively to be sure except for the northern industrialists. But northern agricultural commodities were not exported as much as southern ones were, thus northerners did not bear the double tariff burden of having to sell at the world price and face retaliation from abroad.

but the North had the initiative to build industries under their protection which, except for Virginia, was never done.

As usual you are simply wrong. The south lagged in manufacturing production and consciously so, but not in other economic capacities. Nobel laureate Robert Fogel conducted an extensive examination of the antebellum southern economy. The south's railroad mileage per capita was only 8% less than the north's, for example, and exceeded the per capita railroad mileage of Britain, France, and Germany combined in 1860. The south's per capita income in 1860 was higher than every single country in Europe except for Britain. It exceeded France, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Italy, Sweden - you name it. In terms of products the south produced 75% of the entire nation's exports in 1860.

83 posted on 11/17/2004 5:33:13 PM PST by GOPcapitalist ("Marxism finds it easy to ally with Islamic zealotism" - Ludwig von Mises)
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