Why does it matter if we do? We also have a close association with Canada, England, and some others. Why do Arabs who believe in creating a giant Islamic state have such a problems with the Jews having a state? Why the enormous hatred? There is something very unnatural in their hate --- something that comes directly from the Koran.
As to my comments on Isreal:
No, Isreal is NOT the root of all problems between Muslims and the rest of the world. Fundementalist Islam is the root of the problem, as well as the general state of poverty of most of the regions in which it is practiced (whether that poverty creates fundementalism or is created by it, I don't know).
Irsreal, is, however, the biggest stumbling block to improved relations with the Middle East, the heart of the Muslim world. Now, I support Isreal, and their right to defend themselves, they have to deal with sh*t that America can't even imagine. And many Arabs certainly do have a problem with Jews having a state. The fact remains, though, that the Palestinians do have some legitimate grievances-though they certainly lost the support of the world (and of me) when they started strapping bombs to themselves. But in their eyes, basically what they are dealing with is not just a Jewish state, but a Jewish state that came into creation within living memory by systematically removing the native inhabitants of their territory, and has since then maintained an unequal society in which the Palestinians have few political rights or economic opportunities. If we can build a stable peace between Palestine and Isreal, we ameliorate not only one of the sore points for greater Muslim-American relations, but also, hopefully, eliminate the most significant hot spot of terrorism in the world, by offering political and economic opportunities in a stable society. It's much harder to convince a kid to blow himself up if he sees his future as promising.
A note for those who know more about Islamic scripture than I: I have heard that standard interpretations of Islamic theology see suicide as a deadly sin, which I think goes to show that you can't say that all of the hate comes from the Koran in an objective sense: the extremists USE the Koran to advance their adgenda. What do you think?
smcmike #134: But in their eyes, basically what they are dealing with is not just a Jewish state,
Smcmike, you're onto something when you bring up how Muslims see things from their warped perspective.
Here's some insight from a "moderate" mainstream Islamic site, Islam Q+A. Note, I deliberately chose a "moderate" site... theres worse on other sites.
Why can’t the Jews and Muslims live together in peace?
You see, they're quoting the "kill the Jews" mantra because they believe that the Islamic "end of days" will not come about until trees come alive and command "true believers" to kill Jews in a weird Islamic enchanted forest type scenario.
According to a report narrated by Muslim from Abu Hurayrah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Hour [the Day of Judgement] will not begin until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them. A Jew will hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will say, ‘O Muslim, O slave of Allaah! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!’ – except for the gharqad (box thorn), for it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (Reported by Muslim, 2922).
Theres not much you can do to reason with that. "It's written..." followed by an antisemitic diatribe appears to be the standard response they seem to offer me when I push it.
You need to understand what they really mean when they say "peace" or ask for a "truce" (hudna), and that to solve this conflict, to have to understand it's not just a war - its a RELIGIOUS WAR - and have to take the religious aspect (no matter how un-PC that is) into consideration.
As for suicide... yes, that is harram (a sin) , but shahadah (martyrdom) for Islam is the greatest sacrifice, so a shaheed (martyr) is granted an automatic pass to paradise for themselves, and for members of their family, where they are either granted 72 hoorin (virgins, or raisins, depending on who you choose to believe) and served by "beautiful young boys."
I have even argued the point that the many of the Quranic verses that describe martyrdom describe "kutila" (those killed) and not "katala" (who kill) for Allahs cause, but have been defeated on this issue many times over on the RoP forums and have long since given up, so 72 virgins, young boys, wine and a packet of raisins for shaheeds it is.