Bush The Insurgent (Fred Barnes On Why Bush Is Turning D.C Upside Down Alert)

Opinionjournal.com ^ | 11/23/04 | Fred Barnes

[Matchett-PI]

"I don't mean to be contentious, just explaining my position. If the Bible tells us to "listen to the Church," and the Church mandates Sunday worship, then Sunday worship is mandatory." - Aquinasfan

I don't mean to be contentious, just explaining my position, too:

The founders identified the 13 colonies of their union as "Free
Protestant". As Protestants, their Declaration in 1776 that "all men are
created equal (in authority) " was consistent with the doctrine of their
founder, the man who first openly protested the hierarchy of men (the pope
and priests in the Roman Chatholic Church) over Christians. His name was
Martin Luther. He was a Roman Catholic priest from Germany who began the
"Protestant Reformation". He stated the following:

"I say, then, neither pope, nor bishop, nor any man whatever has the right
of making one syllable binding on a Christian man, unless it be done with
his own consent.

Whatever is done otherwise is done in the spirit of tyranny...I cry aloud
on behalf of liberty and conscience, and I proclaim with confidence that no
kind of law can with any justice be imposed on Christians, except so far as
they themselves will; for we are free from all."

INTRODUCTION TO THE LIBERTY PRINCIPLES IN AMERICAN POLITICS
by Stephen L. Corrigan - http://w3.one.net/~stephenc/fun.html

[rejoicing]

Oh, my gosh! Not ANOTHER token African-American in Bush's circle..........and a minister at that! Has the man no shame? Is there no depth to which he will not stoop to appear inclusive?

[Aquinasfan]

"I say, then, neither pope, nor bishop, nor any man whatever has the right of making one syllable binding on a Christian man, unless it be done with his own consent."
--Luther

"if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
--Jesus

I'll go with Jesus on that one.

[Aquinasfan]

If you are trying to make the point that Bush is a bad Christian because he doesn't attend services in a public church every Sunday, give it up.

If that's his understanding, which I believe it is, then his decision would not be sinful. However, as a matter of fact, Christians are obligated to attend Mass every Sunday. I've presented my arguments here. You're free to present yours.

[Rebelbase]

"Isn't Sunday attendance sort of a mandantory part of the Christian faith?"

Only in churches where they make you feel guilty for missing a Sunday.

[MissAmericanPie]

D.C. certainly needs to be stood on it's head and be reminded that they are the hired hands of the citizen.

[Marysecretary]

I believe it's necessary to go to church and be committed to a body of believers. If I don't go to church sometimes for various reasons (rare for me not to go, though), I'm not committing some horrible sin for missing it. I can go to church sometimes when I'm so discouraged that I'm only there because I know I need to be. During the praise and worship time, I often get revived. The sermon can do that as well. Having your brothers and sisters in Christ pray for you is a real blessing. I love going to church. I go because I love to go, not because I have to.

[JehngisKahn]

I believe the POSH acronym is usually attributed to going through the Suez Canal, rather than crossing the Atlantic. But the Oxfored English Dictionary even has its doubts about that:

(pQS) Of obscure origin, but cf. "posh n.² The suggestion that this word is derived from the initials of ‘port outward, starboard home’, referring to the more expensive side for accommodation on ships formerly travelling between England and India, is often put forward but lacks foundation. The main objections to this derivation are listed by G. Chowdharay-Best in Mariner's Mirror (1971) Jan. 91–2.]

They seem to think it has more to do with a Romany (i.e., Gypsy) term for money:

(pQS)  [App. thieves' slang (cf. Romany posh half).]

1. slang. Money; spec. a halfpenny; a coin of small value.
Eng. Dial. Dict. s.v. posh n.⁴ provides evidence of dial. currency.

[Sybeck1]

Doesn't the president spend Christmas at the White House to ensure as many as possible SS can spend the holiday at home with their families?

[MortMan]

Posh is one of the spice girls, naturally! ;-P

(Sorry... I couldn't resist)

[Matchett-PI]

"If that's his understanding, which I believe it is, then his decision would not be sinful. However, as a matter of fact, Christians are obligated to attend Mass every Sunday."

If that's your understanding, which I believe it is, then your decision would not be sinful. However, as a matter of fact, only Roman Catholics are obligated to attend Mass every Sunday.

[television is just wrong]

You never agree with everything someone stands for.

[Marysecretary]

Catholics are required to attend Mass, Aquinasfan. Christians aren't. We go to church because we want to be obedient, for sure, but I go because I love to go. Not all Catholics are christians and not all christians are Catholic.

[Aquinasfan]

I go because I love to go, not because I have to.

That's best. But the Church, as our Mother, knows that sometimes her children sometimes need to be dragged kicking and screaming, for their own good, of course. 8-)

[Matchett-PI]

"I say, then, neither pope, nor bishop, nor any man whatever has the right of making one syllable binding on a Christian man, unless it be done with his own consent." --Luther

"if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector." --Jesus

"I'll go with Jesus on that one."

And that it all depends on what your understanding of the meaning of "the" is, doesn't it.

[Aquinasfan]

And that it all depends on what your understanding of the meaning of "the" is, doesn't it.

I assume that Jesus is recommending that people go to the church that He founded.

[Matchett-PI]

"And that it all depends on what your understanding of the meaning of "the" is, doesn't it." ~ M-PI

"I assume that Jesus is recommending that people go to the church that He founded."

Repeat. [See above]

[antisocial]

It is well documented that the emperor Constantine made it illegal for "Christians" to observe the Sabbath, because he didn't want them to practice the same worship as the Jews.
I believe that Jesus observed every Sabbath as well as every Feast of the Lord, and even Paul made sacrifices in the Jewish temple on the Sabbath. Why do Catholics prefer to follow the decrees of a pagan emporor, rather than to do as Jesus did and keep the Sabbath Holy?

[Miss Marple]

I haven't read to the end of this thread yet, but I am going to go ahead and answer narses, anyway.

When President Bush is at Camp David, he worships in the chapel there. There is a Chaplain for Camp David, and the congregation consists of the military and the families of those who work and live there.

When he is in DC, he attends church at St. John's. When he is in Crawford, he attends church either at the Methodist or the Baptist Church.

As far as I can tell, he rarely misses a Sunday in church. The exceptions are when he is travelling overseas, and I believe he makes some sort of arrangements for private services. Karen Hughs in her book recounts that he participated in a prayer service with her and several aides when flying back from some overseas trip.

We don't see the pictures of him worshipping at Camp David like we do when he is at St. John's, but he definitely does attend their services.

I am not sure what you are trying to insinuate, narses, but I hope this has laid to rest your questioin.

[Rocky Mountain Mama]

Doesn't the president spend Christmas at the White House to ensure as many as possible SS can spend the holiday at home with their families?

This is one reason the SS love the Bush family so much! He treats them like equals, he serves them whenever he can as much as they serve him; unlike some who shall remain nameless who treated the SS like plantation help.