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To: SJackson
"I was thirteen years old when Hitler ordered the murder of a million and a half Jewish children."

Never have figured out why the Catholic church has never ex-communicated Hitler.

8 posted on 11/25/2004 6:22:21 AM PST by patriot_wes
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To: patriot_wes
Never have figured out why the Catholic church has never ex-communicated Hitler.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think excommunication is done after death. I think the rationale while he way living lay in the obvious political risks.

9 posted on 11/25/2004 6:27:46 AM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: patriot_wes

"I was thirteen years old when Hitler ordered the murder of a million and a half Jewish children."

Never have figured out why the Catholic church has never ex-communicated Hitler.




Hitler wasn't specifically ex-communicated, but given that all Nazis were ex-communicated by the Catholic bishops in 1930, I think we can safely say that Hitler, being part of the set of "all Nazis", was indeed excommunicated.

http://www.geocities.com/chiniquy/Hitler.html

Was Hitler a Christian?

The allegation is sometimes made that Hitler was a Catholic - a Christian until the day he died. This claim is based upon the fact that Hitler was born and raised in a Catholic family.

However, as an adult, Hitler specifically rejected the Catholic Church, as well as Christianity in general. He described himself as "a complete pagan".

The book Hitler's Secret Conversations: 1941-1944, published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc. (1953), contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, Hitler's Table Talk: 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity [is] the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St. Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St. Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... [here he insults people who believe transubstantiation] .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold its demise." (p 278)

Was Hitler Excommunicated?

The allegation is sometimes made that the Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler from membership. It is unknown whether Hitler was formally excommunicated or not, but it doesn't matter. Hitler was already excommunicated ipso facto under the canon law of the Catholic Church for his numerous sinful crimes. He could only have returned to the Catholic faith, even assuming that he would ever have wanted to, by having his excommunication removed by the Pope himself. The lifting of such excommunication is reserved to the Pope, latae sententiae.

Furthermore, the conference of German bishops excommunicated all Nazis in 1930, and in the 1932 elections forbade Catholics to vote for a Nazi. By being the leader of the Nazi party, Hitler had already put himself outside of the Church.

Finally, it should be noted that the whole purpose of excommunication is to help the sinner recognize the enormity of his sins, so he will seek forgiveness. As St. Paul wrote: "If any one refuses to obey our word by this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. Do not look on him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother." (2 Thes 3:14-15). Someone like Hitler, who did not believe in the truth of Christianity, would simply shrug it off.


10 posted on 11/25/2004 6:36:10 AM PST by Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
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To: patriot_wes; SJackson; Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek

http://www.nationalreview.com/shiflett/shiflett012102.shtml

I'm no historical expert, but Herr Hitler did a fairly masterful job of manipulating
German religious leaders of Protestant stripes (I'm less familiar about the Catholic situation).
Hitler's artful "carrot and stick" approach has been discussed at length
by a Methodist minister, Laurence White (Houston, TX).

R.C. Sproul (Reformed Christian theologian) has mentioned a book published in Dutch soon
after WWII titled (something like) "Hitler, Scourge of Europe". In this book, Hitler is
quoted as saying that he'd "made a deal with the Devil" in his pursuit of power
and ultimate replacement of Christianity with Germanic paganism.
Even recently, the obsession of Heinrich Himmler with finding the Holy Grail and
using specious archeology to revive Germanic paganism was documented in a TV special
by Michael Wood.


While I don't now the whys/wherefores of Hitler not being given the excommunication
boot by The Vatican, it is worth note that the Nazis created the world's largest
graveyard of Catholic priests (executed at one of the camps).


18 posted on 11/25/2004 2:11:15 PM PST by VOA
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