[randog]

His findings show recidivism rates for Prop. 36 participants were even worse (65 percent more) when compared with the noncriminal cases of people who entered treatment voluntarily, or without the involvement of the criminal justice system.

Anyone in AA or NA could have told you that. It's no secret that drug/alcohol abusers that get the "judge nudge" are likely to get back into their old habits. The hospital programs are even worse--only about 10% of patients that go through those programs are clean/sober in a year. It just boils down to one simple principle: you're not going to get clean/sober if you don't want to.

[goldstategop]

Exactly. The addict must want to be motivated to get clean and sober and stay clean and sober. No government program in the world can reform people against their will. Liberals ought to know that better than any one. Its a fact of human nature.

[eno_]

It just boils down to one simple principle: you're not going to get clean/sober if you don't want to.

You hit the nail on the head.

Now the question is: Should drug use be criminalized? Criminalization leads to the "judge nudge" and to both higher failure rates in effective programs, and to charlatanism in drug "treatment."

Or should we go for putting 20% of the population in prison?

[SE Mom]

"Anyone in AA or NA could have told you that. It's no secret that drug/alcohol abusers that get the "judge nudge" are likely to get back into their old habits."

---

Exactly. I wonder how many judges who pass these sentences have a working knowledge of the various treatment programs.

It's a conundrum really- 12-step programs are successful only for those who WANT to get well. From an outsider's view- it makes sense to "make" people attend meetings- forgetting that "you can lead a horse to water..."

[Luke21]

I've been in drug counseling for five years and am getting out. AA/NA/CA are still the best and most effective ways of obtaining sobriety, not treatment.

Today's treatment centers are offering rational recovery/ psychobabble and medications by the handfull. They are trying to do recovery without a higher power, and will bear the fruits accordingly.

I even have some of my clients being given narcotics to treat narcotic addiction. They say it's the wave of the future...Too many master's degree people and not enough drunks and addicts in the field anymore, much of it because of the politicians and the liberals.