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L.I. Clash on Immigrants Is Gaining Political Force [NY]
New York Times ^ | Nov 29, 2004 | PATRICK HEALY

Posted on 11/28/2004 8:36:34 PM PST by Mike Fieschko

Everywhere Steve Levy went last year in his successful campaign for Suffolk County executive, he said, he heard the same complaints. A new wave of Hispanic immigrants had swept Long Island, and many residents were furious about the overcrowded homes and lines of day laborers they saw in their towns. They told Mr. Levy they wanted action.

This month, Mr. Levy floated a proposal to deputize some Suffolk County police officers, giving them the power to detain people found to be in the United States illegally after being taken into custody on other charges. Right now, Suffolk police and corrections officers say, they are prohibited from asking immigrants whether they are in the country legally. Mr. Levy's proposal, which he later amended, was met by objections from the police unions.

Mr. Levy said his intent was to fight crime by focusing the effort on criminals like gang members, not ordinary immigrants. But advocacy groups and residents of Suffolk and Nassau Counties say the proposal is a sign of the times. They say the issue of illegal immigration is rapidly gathering political force in Long Island's patchwork of historically white suburban hamlets, and as the complaints grow, politicians are responding with get-tough rhetoric, crackdowns and new laws.

"Public opinion has changed," said Sue Grant, one of several Farmingville residents who rise each morning to stand on street corners and demonstrate against the day laborers in their community. "More and more people are coming forward and saying, 'I'm sick of this.' They don't want this anymore."

It is the latest knot in Long Island's wrenching struggle to digest the thousands of Hispanic immigrants - many of them day laborers - who have arrived in the past decade and at a record pace in the last three years, drawn by jobs in construction and landscaping and other blue-collar work. One result is a commensurate strain on public services like schools, garbage collection and sewer systems in an area where residents pay some of the highest taxes in the country.

Communities across the nation - from Mesa, Ariz., to Hoover, Ala., to Freehold, N.J. - have faced similar struggles. Day laborers have been shut out and demonstrated against, and have become the targets of political campaigns. There has been tension in many villages and cities and violence in isolated spots. But observers and local politicians said that rarely has the fight seemed so bitter or raged so long as on Long Island, where violence has erupted in recent years and Mr. Levy's proposal is just one of many with support from politicians and residents.

Long Island's stratified hamlets and villages, its history of segregation by race and by economic status, its need for cheap laborers to do work rejected by others and its lack of rental housing have set a unique stage for this fight, experts said.

"People came here in the 50's and 60's and early 70's thinking they were getting away from the problems of the city," said Stefan Krieger, who runs Hofstra University's Housing Rights Clinic. "In the city, with diversity, you celebrate it. Out here, not at all. You see different-color people on the street and for some reason, there's some dissonance."

That dissonance is growing louder, its tone more varied. While some communities like Glen Cove and Freeport have arranged for hiring halls for the day laborers who line street corners, others have roundly rejected the idea.

Farmingdale has stepped up traffic enforcement to discourage contractors from picking up day laborers, and several village officials say they are planning to demolish apartments that they say are chock full of immigrants. They argue that the buildings are rife with code violations and not worth preserving.

The Town of Brookhaven has set up an informal task force to investigate code violations and complaints about homes crowded with day laborers. A town councilwoman, Geraldine Esposito, said she was searching for ways to tighten the town's Neighborhood Preservation Act, further limiting the number of people in a home. "We're trying to solve a problem that's almost unsolvable for the town," she said. "Where are these men going to go? They should go back home to where their home is. There is no pot of gold here unless they can do it legally."

Campaigns for village and town offices have ramped up their rhetoric, promising to do everything possible to get day laborers off the streets.


Local officials say their actions and ideas are necessary, fair and colorblind. They said they are not singling out Hispanic immigrants, but are trying to break up the networks of overcrowded homes, unlicensed contractors and absentee landlords that exploit day laborers.

"It's been ignored, totally ignored," said Mr. Levy, a Democrat who was elected on a platform of fiscal austerity and better management of the county, on the eastern end of Long Island, and its roughly 1.5 million residents. "It's led to workers being exploited, houses being overcrowded and legitimate businesses going under. There's an undercurrent of frustration within the majority of Suffolk residents."

But laborers and advocacy groups say the new policies and aggressive rhetoric are coded attempts to drive Latino immigrants underground or off Long Island. They see parallels between policies denying black families homes in Levittown after World War II and a proposed law in Suffolk County asking federal officials to enforce immigration laws.

"It's like we're going backwards," said Irma Solis, an organizer at the Workplace Project, a Hispanic advocacy group in Farmingville. "It's another wave of attacks against the immigrant community."

Paul Tonna of Huntington, a Republican member of the Suffolk County Legislature, is a veteran of these wars. He defended day laborers, tried unsuccessfully to pass legislation to set up a hiring hall for them and earned many enemies in the process. Now leaving office because of term limits, Mr. Tonna says he has been asking himself, why Long Island?

One reason experts cite is persistent segregation on Long Island, named the country's most segregated suburb in a 2002 study by David Rusk, a consultant who analyzes suburban segregation patterns. In the 1950's and 60's, discriminatory practices by lenders, real estate agents and builders steered minorities and whites to different communities.

Today, there are villages - like Garden City and Hempstead, Copiague and Amityville - that sit next to each other, but have nearly opposite racial compositions.

Still, Mr. Tonna said, "It's not just bigotry. It's an economic issue."

Most of the problems bubbled up in heavily white, blue-collar communities - places where new immigrants, many of them upwardly mobile, could barely get a foothold. In wealthy East Hampton, the quarrels over immigration and code violations are not centered in the wealthy beachfront enclaves but in Springs, a middle-class neighborhood.

Long Island's Hispanic population grew by about 70 percent in a decade, according to the 2000 census. Between 2000 and 2003, it grew even faster, with the number of Hispanic residents of Suffolk jumping by 20 percent. That translates into an average of 10,387 people per year, compared with about 6,500 people per year during the 1990's.

Many newcomers are here illegally or on temporary visas, but there is no definitive data on their numbers.

Immigrants arrived in droves in relatively small communities, making it impossible for residents to ignore their new neighbors. Some 80 percent of Long Islanders own their homes, and there are few rental apartments, so laborers are often crammed into single-family homes.

And thanks to the island's relatively weak labor unions, they can find work by standing on street corners, Mr. Tonna said.

Some towns took the change in stride; others rejected it outright, with angry residents attending town and county legislative meetings to complain that the influx of immigrants has brought noise violations, littering, people drinking and urinating in public and driveways crammed with cars. They videotaped crowds of day laborers and staged demonstrations.

The tension first flared into violence in 2000, when two men posing as contractors kidnapped two Farmingville day laborers and beat them with a crowbar. In July 2003, a group of teenagers set fire to the house of a Mexican family in Farmingville.

Governments have responded to residents' complaints with bills intended either to accommodate the immigrants or to clamp down on them. There does not appear to be any particular geographical pattern to the measures. One community's anxiety does not necessarily seem to spread. Officials from various towns have proposed limiting the number of people in a house, banning the hiring of day laborers off the street and requiring identification from anyone using a village park.


But few ideas over the years have drawn as much fire as the one Mr. Levy first broached publicly about three weeks ago to give Suffolk police officers the authority to detain illegal immigrants taken into custody for a variety of offenses.

After a meeting last week with representatives of Hispanic groups, Mr. Levy changed his plan, proposing instead to give corrections officers broader powers in enforcing immigration laws and access to federal databases. He said he would also ask Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials to assign three federal agents to the county to help identify and deport illegal immigrants in police custody.

If his plan is approved by federal officials, Mr. Levy said, the corrections officers would be trained by the Department of Homeland Security. They would not pluck immigrants off the street or sweep neighborhoods, he said, but would keep those charged with a crime in jail rather than allowing them to post bail.

Of the 23,150 arrests made by Suffolk police last year, 2,349 were of noncitizens. Mr. Levy said his proposal would increase the number of inmates who are handed over to federal immigration authorities, currently fewer than a dozen each year. His original plan was opposed by the Suffolk Police Benevolent Association, whose president, Jeff Frayler, said it would chill the relationship between immigrants and the police and make illegal immigrants less likely to report crimes. Mr. Levy said the plan would not apply to people whose illegal status was discovered while they were reporting crimes.

Despite criticism from Mr. Levy's own Hispanic Advisory Board, Mr. Frayler said, the county executive tapped a wealth of public support just by making the proposal.

"I think it's much larger than anyone could have believed," he said, "and Levy's catering to that crew."

This summer, Mr. Levy ordered a police sting operation to catch unlicensed contractors, many of whom hire day laborers. He said that during the next phase, police would ask contractors to produce federal I-9 forms, proving that their employees are legally authorized to work.

The new mayor of Farmingdale, George Graf, whose campaign literature attacked the former incumbent, Joseph Trudden - accusing him of allowing "our streets to be overrun with day laborers hanging out on our corners" - has stepped up fines against drivers who stop on Conklin Street, formerly a popular spot to pick up day laborers. Mr. Graf said the crowds have thinned as officers have issued tickets with $100 fines.

The new administration has also rekindled a plan to spend $6 million to $14 million to acquire six acres of land on Secatogue Avenue, where many Hispanic residents live in decrepit apartments near the Long Island Rail Road tracks, raze the buildings and replace them with condominiums for the elderly. "It will be before the public in the first quarter" of 2005, said the village attorney, Greg Carman. "This is going to move."

Residents of the apartment complex, which is privately owned, said that their ceilings leak, that their floors are caving in and that fetid smells drift up from the basement, but that they have few other places to move. Many were suspicious of the village's motives.

"It's very hard to rent a house without papers," said Ana Maria Cabrera, 22, who works in a shoe store in Northport. "If they are moving us from one place to another, it obviously means they don't want us around."




TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: aliens; immigrantlist; immigration
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Librado Romero/The New York Times
Dave Drew, picketing at Horseblock Road and North Ocean Avenue, is among many in Farmingville who have taken to the streets in protest.

1 posted on 11/28/2004 8:36:34 PM PST by Mike Fieschko
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To: Mike Fieschko

"A new wave of Hispanic immigrants had swept Long Island, and many residents were furious about the overcrowded homes and lines of day laborers they saw in their towns"

If they think that's bad, wait until the politicians start taxing the heck out of them. We're dying here in Vegas!


2 posted on 11/28/2004 8:44:24 PM PST by ETERNAL WARMING (He is faithful!)
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To: Mike Fieschko

My old (REALLY OLD) home. Go Sachem!


3 posted on 11/28/2004 8:44:58 PM PST by Buck W. (How can anyone who works for a living vote democrat?)
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To: Mike Fieschko
And thanks to the island's relatively weak labor unions, they can find work by standing on street corners...

Yeah, cause it should be illegal to work if you don't pay an organization monthly dues to acquire and keep a job.

4 posted on 11/28/2004 8:45:23 PM PST by randog (What the....?!)
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To: Mike Fieschko

Is the local GOP on the right side of this issue? It seems as if the Democrats are seizing the initiative, at least according to the NY Times portrayal.

The GOP on immigration:
"Paul Tonna of Huntington, a Republican member of the Suffolk County Legislature, is a veteran of these wars. He defended day laborers, tried unsuccessfully to pass legislation to set up a hiring hall for them and earned many enemies in the process."

The Democrats on immigration:
"It's been ignored, totally ignored," said Mr. Levy, a Democrat who was elected on a platform of fiscal austerity and better management of the county, on the eastern end of Long Island, and its 1.4 million residents. "It's led to workers being exploited, houses being overcrowded and legitimate businesses going under. There's an undercurrent of frustration within the majority of Suffolk residents."

"But few ideas over the years have drawn as much fire as the one Mr. Levy first broached publicly about three weeks ago to give Suffolk police officers the authority to detain illegal immigrants taken into custody for a variety of offenses. After a meeting last week with representatives of Hispanic groups, Mr. Levy changed his plan, proposing instead to give corrections officers broader powers in enforcing immigration laws and access to federal databases. He said he would also ask Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials to assign three federal agents to the county to help identify and deport illegal immigrants in police custody."

If the NY Times is accurately portraying the situation, and the Democrats have seized the leadership from the GOP on this issue, wait until Hillary gets a hold of this! We will be hearing about her "partnering with local officials" to control illegal immigration on Long Island. She could ride this wave straight to the White House.


5 posted on 11/28/2004 8:46:11 PM PST by nj26
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To: Mike Fieschko

Bookmark


6 posted on 11/28/2004 8:50:21 PM PST by primeval patriot
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To: nj26

She could ride this wave straight to the White House.


Don't even THINK it!


7 posted on 11/28/2004 8:51:30 PM PST by Just Lori (Before you can win the peace, you have to win the WAR!!!)
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To: nj26
Is the local GOP on the right side of this issue? It seems as if the Democrats are seizing the initiative, at least according to the NY Times portrayal.

I haven't the foggiest idea. Maybe some Lon Guy-landers will join in the discussion.
8 posted on 11/28/2004 8:52:17 PM PST by Mike Fieschko ("Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra?")
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To: nj26
Bush has 4 years to wake up to this or the GOP looses. Bush is in power and can do something whereas Hitlary has limited power, at least now,
9 posted on 11/28/2004 8:52:58 PM PST by -=Wing_0_Walker=-
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To: Mike Fieschko; cyborg
I find articles such as this interesting, as Long Island is where I grew up. When I was a kid, "Hispanic" meant Puerto Ricans and Dominicans who lived "in the city." Most of the island (especially the south shore) was populated by people who fled Brooklyn and Queens, creating a rather insular environment.

I am not surprised that they would react more stridently than other areas of the country. Suburban communities here in the metro Seattle area are filled with apartment complexes with large immigrant populations. I went to a community center near Microsoft's campus two weeks ago where a large gathering of Mexican day laborers were having some sort of "know your rights" event. Nobody protests that sort of thing out here.

10 posted on 11/28/2004 8:53:08 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: Mike Fieschko

But laborers and advocacy groups say the new policies and aggressive rhetoric are coded attempts to drive Latino immigrants underground or off Long Island. They see parallels between policies denying black families homes in Levittown after World War II and a proposed law in Suffolk County asking federal officials to enforce immigration laws.

** IT is NOT the same thing!!!!!! OMG these people are something else *LOL*


11 posted on 11/28/2004 8:53:56 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
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To: Mike Fieschko

I can remember driving down Horseblock Road into Farmingville and seeing many people hanging around on the corners and running to any vehicle that would stop.


12 posted on 11/28/2004 8:54:21 PM PST by NY Attitude
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To: ETERNAL WARMING

I live in Village of Hempstead. Please don't get me started *LOL*


13 posted on 11/28/2004 8:54:22 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
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To: Spanaway Lori

We will have to wait and see.

But I have little doubt that she will move in on this action ASAP, probably before her 2006 reelection campaign. She will be more than happy to take credit for Steve Levy's hard work in fighting illegal immigration. And, I am sure that the Clintons will provide some payoff to him, so that he will give her some of the credit.

And, if he doesn't agree to let her muscle in on the action, he better watch his back.


14 posted on 11/28/2004 8:54:45 PM PST by nj26
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To: NY Attitude

They actually set up a "hiring center" at the old Kmart (now Kohls) off the Belt Parkway in Bensonhurst. They used to sleep there, among other activities.


15 posted on 11/28/2004 8:55:28 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: NY Attitude

I remember when 540 WLIE was a talk station and every morning Ed Tyll would be out covering the day laborer issue.


16 posted on 11/28/2004 8:55:38 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
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To: cyborg

Where are local Republican leaders on the issue of illegal immigration?


17 posted on 11/28/2004 8:56:12 PM PST by nj26
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To: cyborg

Are the blacks leaving Hempstead to get away from the illegals like they're doing in Los Angeles?


18 posted on 11/28/2004 8:56:47 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: nj26

Long Island Republicans = Corrupt RINOs


19 posted on 11/28/2004 8:57:09 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: Clemenza

Maybe I've gotten jaded but I can't get worked up about the sky high taxes anymore :( The good part about having hispanic families moving in is that they actually appreciate where they live. I can't say the same for one particular area by the bus terminal where MS13 seems to hold court every single night.


20 posted on 11/28/2004 8:58:12 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
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To: cyborg

Just wait until they start setting up house in Levittown or East Meadow.


21 posted on 11/28/2004 8:59:14 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: Mike Fieschko

"It is the latest knot in Long Island's wrenching struggle to digest the thousands of Hispanic immigrants'


Thousands....he he he he....wait until they are like California, where we have several MILLIONS!!!!


22 posted on 11/28/2004 9:00:05 PM PST by international american (Proudly posting without reading the article since 2003.)
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To: Mike Fieschko

I love the last paragraph where the gal said"They obviously don't want us around"

One word of English they refuse to learn is "legal".


23 posted on 11/28/2004 9:01:02 PM PST by Mears
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To: nj26

BWAHAHAHA *LOL* Wow you're kidding. As one republican leader said on the radio one day 'forget about the blacks, we want the hispanics'. My mayor ran against Carolyn McCarthy with little support from the GOP. Also, Marilyn O'Grady (who I voted for) got very little support. The moderate pubble Howard Mills got NOTHING. NADA. When you do try to get involved all you get a wall of BS.


24 posted on 11/28/2004 9:01:47 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
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To: Clemenza

That and God's face you'll never see.


25 posted on 11/28/2004 9:02:11 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
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To: Clemenza

because Seattle and environs are full of stinkin' liberals who want to fill our country up with illegals to keep voting them into office


26 posted on 11/28/2004 9:04:13 PM PST by cmotormac44
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To: Clemenza

Not sure where they're going. I do know that aside from Salvadoreans, Haitians, Asians of all kinds, and young white couples are moving in. The way people move around here is weird *lol*


27 posted on 11/28/2004 9:04:15 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
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To: Mike Fieschko
I can't believe it. If the Southwest is overrun with presumed future Democratic voters, that's cool, but NOT LONG ISLAND!

LOL, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Now if we can only convince a few million of our illegals in Texas that Long Island is Azatalan Norte, and the real promised land, maybe things will improve - for Texas.

28 posted on 11/28/2004 9:05:15 PM PST by xJones
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To: cyborg

The sad part is that this isn't just a local problem. If the Dems step up to the plate and address this issue, we are one step closer to electing HRC.

I respect Karl Rove in many ways, but this "get the Hispanic vote at any cost" strategy is going to destroy the party.


29 posted on 11/28/2004 9:05:35 PM PST by nj26
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To: cmotormac44

"because Seattle and environs are full of stinkin' liberals who want to fill our country up with illegals to keep voting them into office"

As far as I can tell, President Bush is the chief agitator for relaxing immigration rules and providing amnesty to illegal immigrants. Amnesty would be dead as an issue if it weren't for his interest in it.


30 posted on 11/28/2004 9:08:23 PM PST by nj26
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To: nj26

Around my area it is all politically engineered by democrats and republicans. However, my particular nabe is rat country.


31 posted on 11/28/2004 9:09:50 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
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To: nj26
Is the GOP on the right side on this issue

http://feinstein.senate.gov/03Releases/r-scaapII.htm

"Illegal immigration is a problem that affects communities across the nation. However, this issue affects my home state of California disproportionately because of California's proximity to the border. In the last year, illegal immigration cost Californians almost $1.2 billion. Of that amount, California spent an estimated $980 million on emergency services for undocumented immigrants.

Border counties, in particular, are among the hardest hit - especially in terms of dollars spent on incarceration, court costs, and emergency medical care for those who are living in the U.S. illegally. For example,

* San Diego County spent an estimated $76.1 million in 2001 in uncompensated costs to provide emergency medical care for undocumented immigrants.

* Imperial County, one of the nation's most impoverished counties, spent nearly $3 million in 2001 in uncompensated emergency medical costs for undocumented immigrants." *****

Thank you for your letter regarding social security accounts for Mexican nationals working in the United States. I welcome the opportunity to respond.

On July 15, 2004, Representative Mac Collins introduced House Resolution 720, a resolution expressing disapproval of the totalization agreement between the social security systems of the United States and Mexico......snip.... Sincerely yours,

Dianne Feinstein
United States Senator

We report you decide

32 posted on 11/28/2004 9:10:30 PM PST by jpsb
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To: cmotormac44

The idiots on Lawn Guyland still voted for da Toon, da Goreon and da Frog. They're kinda strange when they come to their politics.


33 posted on 11/28/2004 9:14:38 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: Clemenza

Lots of union influence.


34 posted on 11/28/2004 9:16:14 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
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To: Clemenza
They actually set up a "hiring center" at the old Kmart (now Kohls) off the Belt Parkway in Bensonhurst. They used to sleep there, among other activities.

They set up one in Freeport in Nassau County too. Bishop Murphy was a big supporter of it, of course as long as it wasn't by his mansion in Rockville Centre.

Every time I drove past there was people out there protesting it and of course counter-protestors with their "stop the hate" signs. I'm not sure if it's still there and since I moved of of LI, I don't care.

35 posted on 11/28/2004 9:17:12 PM PST by katnip (Defeating John Kerry is like giving Vietnam Veterans the Homecoming they never had)
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To: nj26

my inpression is that most LI repubs are against ILLEGAL immigration. recently, a candidate ran for the town board in huntington. this guy came out very strongly for crack-downs on ILLEGAL immigration and on the landlords who are profitting illegally off of them.
newsday, the local liberal paper, ran an editorial right before the election calling him a racist, and he was easily defeated by the incumbent dems, who had lots of money from the landlords.


36 posted on 11/28/2004 9:18:11 PM PST by drhogan
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To: Spanaway Lori; nj26

The only good news is that Hillary is already working on moving to the right of the Bush GOP on this. We're fortunate that she is telegraphing her plans so early.

This means that Karl "the supposed genius" Rove has time to figure out Hillary can and will pick off a few red states with the immigration issue and waltz into the White House unless Republicans figure out that they are supposed to represent the legal residents of this country, not the corporate one-worlders who will subvert anything for cheap labor.


37 posted on 11/28/2004 9:18:25 PM PST by litany_of_lies
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To: katnip

Freeport away from the water was a dump back in the 80s. Its nice to see that in addition to the hookers they now have illegals as well.


38 posted on 11/28/2004 9:19:35 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: cyborg

Hi cyborg.

Do you know if that illegal worker trailer by the Dunkin Donuts on Sunrise highway is still there?


39 posted on 11/28/2004 9:19:40 PM PST by katnip (Defeating John Kerry is like giving Vietnam Veterans the Homecoming they never had)
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To: drhogan

Many of the landlords of the apartment buildings are absentee RINOs living in Garden City and elsewhere in New York far removed from their affordable housing roach motels. They're anything BUT affordable BTW. I won't speak harsh about the people living there. When I did house-to-house for the fire department they gave the most donations.


40 posted on 11/28/2004 9:21:23 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
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To: Clemenza

Freeport sure has some big old gorgeous houses there though.


41 posted on 11/28/2004 9:21:27 PM PST by katnip (Defeating John Kerry is like giving Vietnam Veterans the Homecoming they never had)
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To: katnip

I haven't driven that way in a while. I do remember reading about that place in Newsday once.


42 posted on 11/28/2004 9:22:23 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
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To: cyborg

The illegals in my nabe in Brooklyn would pay $950+ to share a one bedroom between two families.


43 posted on 11/28/2004 9:22:29 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: Clemenza

And there are enough people who will sell the apartment to them too... here no one cares about illegal renting. That's how a lot of people are able to pay their mortgages.


44 posted on 11/28/2004 9:25:20 PM PST by cyborg ( Hy verkwik my siel; Hy lei my in die spore van geregtigheid, om sy Naam ontwil.)
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To: cyborg

Yep, I would pass these beautiful brownstones on my way home from the X-bus and hear Mariachi music coming from the basement.


45 posted on 11/28/2004 9:27:10 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: -=Wing_0_Walker=-

"Bush has 4 years to wake up to this or the GOP looses."

Oh puh-leeze, I love W but he is clueless on this issue. He loves the immigrants, legal or illegal, and he wants to legalize them all.

Oh yeah, and religion of peace, dontcha know?


46 posted on 11/28/2004 9:32:45 PM PST by jocon307 (Jihad is world wide. Jihad is serious business. We ignore global jihad at our peril.)
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To: Buck W.

GO EI! We didn't really have this problem in East Islip though. As I'm sure most of Suffolk County knows of that. "White" Islip.


47 posted on 11/28/2004 9:33:20 PM PST by kizzdogg
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To: Mike Fieschko

I Hate the NY Slimes. This issue has nothing to do with race, for me. If it was hundreds of 1930's style caucasian hobos standing on my street every morning I would still be against it.


48 posted on 11/28/2004 9:34:36 PM PST by Gigantor (Reelecting Bush and defeating Daschle is like finding Osama's phone number in Saddam's pocket.)
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To: litany_of_lies

"The only good news is that Hillary is already working on moving to the right of the Bush GOP on this. We're fortunate that she is telegraphing her plans so early."

I don't know what Hillary's plans are. She could move to our right, and run against illegal immigration. On the other hand, this could be a "head-fake", and she could have planted the recent media stories to increase conservative unrest about illegal immigration, and encourage a conservative anti-amnesty third-party candidate to run against the Rove-backed nominee in 2008. Then, with a Ross Perot-type spoiler, she could run as a liberal and win with 43% of the vote, like her hubby.

Notwithstanding recent rumors, she was a co-sponsor of S-2381 in the Senate, which is a Democratic-proposed amnesty ("earned legalization") plan.

But the bottom line is that our party leaders are on the WRONG side of this issue. And, our party is very vulnerable, and Hillary will exploit that vulnerability. I don't know how, but I am sure that she will.


49 posted on 11/28/2004 9:37:38 PM PST by nj26
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To: Clemenza
The idiots on Lawn Guyland still voted for da Toon, da Goreon and da Frog. They're kinda strange when they come to their politics.

Suffolk was very close. Kerry may not have gotten 51%.

50 posted on 11/28/2004 9:37:46 PM PST by FreeReign
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