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CIA funds chatroom surveillance
c|Net / ZDnet ^ | 11/25/2004 | Declan McCullough

Posted on 11/28/2004 8:48:51 PM PST by Prime Choice

A university in New York has been funded to keep tabs on IRC conversations with money channelled through the National Science Foundation by the CIA, documents have revealed.

The CIA is quietly funding federal research into surveillance of Internet chatrooms as part of an effort to identify possible terrorists, newly released documents reveal.

In April 2003, the CIA agreed to fund a series of research projects that the documents indicate were intended to create "new capabilities to combat terrorism through advanced technology". One of those projects is research at the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, N.Y., devoted to automated monitoring and profiling of the behaviour of chatroom users.

Even though the money ostensibly comes from the National Science Foundation, CIA officials were involved in selecting recipients for the research grants, according to a contract between the two agencies obtained by the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) and reviewed by ZDNet UK sister site CNET News.com.

NSF programme director Leland Jameson said on Wednesday the two-year agreement probably will not be renewed for the 2005 fiscal year. "Probably we won't be working with the CIA anymore at all," Jameson said. "I think that people have moved on to other things."

The NSF grant for chatroom surveillance was reported earlier this year, but without disclosure of the CIA's role in the project. The NSF-CIA memorandum of understanding says that while the 11 September, 2001 attacks and the fight against terrorism presented US spy agencies with surveillance challenges, existing spy "capabilities can be significantly enhanced with advanced technology".

EPIC director Marc Rotenberg, whose nonprofit group obtained the documents through the Freedom of Information Act, said the CIA's clandestine involvement was worrisome. "The intelligence community is changing the priorities of scientific research in the US," Rotenberg said. "You have to be careful that the National Science Foundation doesn't become the National Spy Foundation."

A CIA representative would not answer questions, saying the agency's policy is never to talk about funding. The two Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute researchers involved, Bulent Yener and Mukkai Krishnamoorthy, did not respond to interview requests.

Their proposal, also disclosed under the Freedom of Information Act, received $157,673 from the CIA and NSF. It says: "We propose a system to be deployed in the background of any chatroom as a silent listener for eavesdropping... The proposed system could aid the intelligence community to discover hidden communities and communication patterns in chatrooms without human intervention."

Yener and Krishnamoorthy, both associate professors of computer science, wrote that their research would involve writing a program for "silently listening" to an Internet Relay Chat (IRC) channel and "logging all the messages". One of the oldest and most popular methods for chatting online, IRC attracts hundreds of thousands of users every day. A history written by IRC creator Jarkko Oikarinen said the concept grew out of chat technology for modem-based bulletin boards in the 1980s.

The Yener and Krishnamoorthy proposal says their research will begin 1 January, 2005 but does not say which IRC servers will be monitored.

A June 2004 paper they published, also funded by the NSF, described a project that quietly monitored users of the popular Undernet network, which has about 144,000 users and 50,000 channels. In the paper, Yener and Krishnamoorthy predicted their work "could aid [the] intelligence community to eavesdrop in chatrooms, profile chatters and identify hidden groups of chatters in a cost-effective way" and that their future research will focus on identifying "topic-based information."

Al Teich, director of science and policy programmes at the American Association for the Advancement of Science, said he does not object to the CIA funding terrorism-related research in general.

"I don't know about chatroom surveillance, but doing research on issues related to terrorism is certainly legitimate," Teich said. "Whether the CIA ought to be funding research in universities in a clandestine manner is a different issue."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: chatrooms; cia; internetrelaychat; irc; privacy; surveillance; waronterror; wot
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It's long been presumed that the FBI had eyes on the wire on every IRC hub. Not sure why this report is making waves now.
1 posted on 11/28/2004 8:48:53 PM PST by Prime Choice
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To: Prime Choice

Might I suggest #political on undernet. Those people are warped.


2 posted on 11/28/2004 8:50:30 PM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all)
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To: Prime Choice

I hope they are keeping tabs on the psychopaths at DU, too.


3 posted on 11/28/2004 8:54:54 PM PST by MisterRepublican ("I must go. I must be elusive.")
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To: Prime Choice; MeekOneGOP; Lady Jag
I have a contact at RPI. I'll find out more about this over Christmas holidays.
PING
4 posted on 11/28/2004 8:54:59 PM PST by concretebob (Power perceived, is power achieved)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: MisterRepublican
I hope they are keeping tabs on the psychopaths at DU, too.

They'd have to, especially considering the DUmmies' love of terrorists and hatred of America.

6 posted on 11/28/2004 8:56:28 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: FarRightTexasDude

Your papers, citizen!

7 posted on 11/28/2004 8:58:04 PM PST by struwwelpeter
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To: Texas Eagle

Not all of us.


8 posted on 11/28/2004 8:58:31 PM PST by EastIdaho (Warning to tourists, do not laugh at the natives)
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To: FarRightTexasDude
The idea is that we could "jam" the system and screw with the Feds.

I remember that nonsense. It was an oversimplification of what Echelon is and what it does. Echelon was never "jammed" by the keyword saturation. Echelon dealt exclusively with semantic forests which rendered those messages irrelevant.

And even if those messages had to be processed, the very idea ignores the sheer computing processing power that the NSA possesses. And baby, it's stuff we won't see on the open market for another 5-10 years.

9 posted on 11/28/2004 9:00:17 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: Prime Choice

Duh,


10 posted on 11/28/2004 9:00:43 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (Free the Fallujah one)
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To: TASMANIANRED
Duh,

Dah-dah dah dummmmmm.

11 posted on 11/28/2004 9:02:32 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: Prime Choice

Another one they already monitor is PalTalk... "talk" chat rooms where there are plenty of explosive discussions, threats, etc. Alot of information there; I cut my teeth on the koran in there, taught by a Coptic Egyptian whose family suffered the consequence of islam. We listened to teachers who taught us the filth of the koran and the true islamic agenda for world dominance. We googled. We debated. And, for sure, those rooms were heavily monitored by the feds. And I say "GOOD"!


12 posted on 11/28/2004 9:03:58 PM PST by WarPaint (Nuke mecca. Be done with it.)
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To: Prime Choice
I hope they do listen in on political chat rooms. I used to go to the Government/politics chat rooms rooms, they are swarming with death to america haters.

I myself called the F.B.I. on more than one occasion. They preach sedition and anarchy.

There are good people who go there as well, defending our country and president.

13 posted on 11/28/2004 9:04:33 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Prime Choice

All Your Chat Rooms Are Belong To Us!


14 posted on 11/28/2004 9:05:53 PM PST by airborne (God bless and keep our fallen heroes.)
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To: USF

Magic Lanterns are at the upper Echelons of Carnivore - Kubark PING.


15 posted on 11/28/2004 9:06:30 PM PST by Proud Infidel (There is no such thing as a moderate Huitzilopochtlist.)
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To: FarRightTexasDude; Prime Choice; Senator Pardek

Anyone have a link to that FRoldie Goldie, "NSA, COLD BUSTED!!!!!!!" Remember that one?


16 posted on 11/28/2004 9:10:03 PM PST by Nita Nupress
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: Nita Nupress; FarRightTexasDude; Senator Pardek
Anyone have a link to that FRoldie Goldie, "NSA, COLD BUSTED!!!!!!!" Remember that one?

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38bb96b741bc.htm

18 posted on 11/28/2004 9:13:51 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: Prime Choice

Here's something they have over at DU....
___________________________________________________________
June 14, 2001
Title: "America at War in Macedonia"
Author: Michel Chossudovsky

July 26, 2001
Title: "NATO Invades Macedonia"
Author: Michel Chossudovsky

Faculty evaluators: Elizabeth Burch, Phil Beard, John Lund
Student researchers: Alessandra Diana, David V. Immel

The CIA destabilized the political balance in Macedonia to allow easier access for a US-British owned oil pipeline, and to prevent Macedonia from entering the European Union (EU), thereby strengthening the US dollar in a German deutschmark dominated region.

Without Macedonia in the EU, British and US oil companies have an advantage over European counterparts in building oil pipelines......

.......The fact that Al Qaeda continues to support KLA terrorist operations in Macedonia, with the full support of NATO and the US government, has been carefully overlooked. With the complicity of NATO and the US State Department. Mujahideen mercenaries from the Middle East and Central Asia were first recruited to fight in the ranks of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) in 1998-99, largely supporting NATO's war effort.

Bin Laden had visited Albania himself. His was one of several fundamentalist groups that had sent units to fight in Kosovo. He is believed to have established an operation in Albania in 1994. Albanian sources say Sali Berisha, who was then president, had links with some groups that later proved to be extreme fundamentalists. (Sunday Times, London, 29 November 1998.)........

Among the foreign mercenaries now fighting in Macedonia (October 2001), in the ranks of self-proclaimed National Liberation Army (NLA), are Mujahideen from the Middle East and the Central Asian republics of the former Soviet Union. Also within the KLA's proxy force in Macedonia are senior US military advisers from a private mercenary outfit on contract to the Pentagon. (Scotland on Sunday, Glasgow, 15 June 2001)

Extensively documented by the Macedonian press and statements of the Macedonian authorities, the US government and the "Islamic Militant Network" are working hand in glove in supporting and financing the self-proclaimed National Liberation Army (NLA), involved in the terrorist attacks in Macedonia. The NLA is a proxy of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA). In turn the KLA and the UN sponsored Kosovo Protection Corps (KPC) are identical institutions with the same commanders and military personnel. KPC Commanders on UN salaries are fighting in the NLA together with the Mujahideen. In a bitter twist, while supported and financed by Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda, the KLA-NLA is also supported by NATO and the United Nations mission to Kosovo (UNMIK).

The KLA-NLA terrorists are funded by US military aid, the United Nations peace-keeping budget, as well as by several Islamic organisations including Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda. Meanwhile, drug money is being used to finance the terrorists with the complicity of the US government. US military advisers mingle with Mujahideen within the same paramilitary force, Western mercenaries from NATO countries fight alongside Mujahideen recruited in the Middle East and Central Asia.

The Bush Administration has stated that it has proof that Osama bin Laden is behind the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon. A major war, supposedly "against international terrorism", has been launched by the Bush Administration. In Macedonia, however, the evidence amply confirms that the Bush Administration (together with NATO) is directly supporting terrorist organisations which have links to Al Qaeda. In other words, the Bush Administration is harboring international terrorism as part of its foreign policy agenda. The main justification for waging the so-called war on terrorism has been a total fabrication. The American people have been deliberately and consciously misled by their government into supporting a major military adventure which affects our collective future......


19 posted on 11/28/2004 9:14:48 PM PST by airborne (God bless and keep our fallen heroes.)
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To: FarRightTexasDude
The Ft. Meade boys have some cool toys.

That they do, FRiend. That they do.

My friends at certain computer companies confirm what you say is the truth.

I may have worked with some of your friends in an advisory capacity. :o)

I guess we'll just have to learn to screw with "semantic forests".

Have a look at the patents filed by NSA people on the subject. Makes it difficult to insert chaff that can be convincingly taken for the genuine article.

20 posted on 11/28/2004 9:18:06 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: Prime Choice

Thank you. That was quick. I thought it would have been relegated to the dust bin by now.

I went and took a look at it.

It's not as funny 4 years later.


21 posted on 11/28/2004 9:19:36 PM PST by Nita Nupress
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To: concretebob; Prime Choice; MeekOneGOP
I'd be surprised if someone wasn't monitoring us and all the others.
22 posted on 11/28/2004 9:19:57 PM PST by Lady Jag (All I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power)
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To: Prime Choice
This sounds like it may be in violation of CIA charter.
CIA is not a domestic spy agency, and was never intended to be.
Its charter specifically prohibits spying inside US borders.
Of course, the government would never let a little thing like rules get in the way.
23 posted on 11/28/2004 9:20:44 PM PST by concretebob (Power perceived, is power achieved)
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To: Prime Choice

Nowhere near as many people use IRC these days. Not like it was just a few years ago. I believe IRC is dying. A lot of IRC networks/servers are gone now.


24 posted on 11/28/2004 9:24:00 PM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: concretebob
This sounds like it may be in violation of CIA charter.

If memory serves, only the NSA is precluded from spying directly on American citizens in these United States. The CIA, on the other hand, is not thus handicapped.

25 posted on 11/28/2004 9:25:34 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: Fiddlstix
Nowhere near as many people use IRC these days. Not like it was just a few years ago. I believe IRC is dying. A lot of IRC networks/servers are gone now.

I think you're right. I personally believe that instant messaging has taken its place. Fortunately, for the surveillance crowd, very few IM services offer encrypted messaging, and even fewer people use any form of encryption.

26 posted on 11/28/2004 9:28:14 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: Lady Jag; MeekOneGOP; potlatch; Happy2BMe; ntnychik; PhilDragoo; Smartass; abigail2; ...


Recall just after 911 when all the dems/libs and LBs were all screaming because jetpilotz(a)somehost.com and other email addresses used by the Islamic skyjacker terrorists were not caught by the FBI and CIA?


Either way it's Bush's fault they say......


Just like the "homeless" propaganda I heard on WABC 770am NYC alleging to be "news" about how the "homeless" problem Slick Willie fixed is back and worse than before the Dark Ages in Europe.

I guess it's Bush's fault as they say......



I recall back a bit when a lib asked if I was carrying one of my Colts as I went with her on a side errand to a bank before heading to a museum; just why is it that libs all are against certain things until it involves their personal safety and money and then they expect someone else to carry the burden for them?



27 posted on 11/28/2004 9:43:50 PM PST by devolve (                          )
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To: Prime Choice
NSA and CIA are indeed so prohibited. However, there is no prohibition at law against NSA/CIA/USwhomever listening in/monitoring citizens of the UK ... and similarly there is no prohibition at law against MI6 listening in/monitoring citizens of the US.

This curious little legal quirk has matured over the years into Echelon and related systems.

28 posted on 11/28/2004 9:45:12 PM PST by SAJ
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To: SAJ

Right.... and the free-sharing of information. However, this IS one of the things that drives the rest of the Euros crazy ;-).


29 posted on 11/28/2004 9:53:06 PM PST by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace (Michael <a href = "http://www.michaelmoore.com/" title="Miserable Failure">"Miserable Failure"</a>)
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To: Prime Choice

Yeah, oldie but goody.


30 posted on 11/28/2004 9:55:20 PM PST by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace (Michael <a href = "http://www.michaelmoore.com/" title="Miserable Failure">"Miserable Failure"</a>)
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To: FarRightTexasDude
Jam Echelon Day a 'rousing' success, says organiser - Echelon did not grind to a halt, but the protest day helped to raise public awareness about the US-led surveillance system
JAM ECHELON DAY

Echelon Links


31 posted on 11/28/2004 9:58:56 PM PST by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace (Michael <a href = "http://www.michaelmoore.com/" title="Miserable Failure">"Miserable Failure"</a>)
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To: FarRightTexasDude
The idea is that we could "jam" the system and screw with the Feds.

Why would we want to do that? Don't you want them to intercept the Jihadis communications as they are planning a terrorist attack?

Was this prior to 9/11? Maybe your "jamming" contributed to the FBI's failure to maintain surveillance on Atta's gang.

32 posted on 11/28/2004 10:00:52 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Prime Choice
And even if those messages had to be processed, the very idea ignores the sheer computing processing power that the NSA possesses.

Someone (Bamford?) said that NSA measures their computing power not in number of workstations, but in acres.

33 posted on 11/28/2004 10:04:38 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: concretebob
Its charter specifically prohibits spying inside US borders. Of course, the government would never let a little thing like rules get in the way.

Didn't those rules prohibit the CIA from informing the FBI that Mohammed Atta and his gang were in country in August of 2001? Was that good?

34 posted on 11/28/2004 10:06:14 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: devolve; MeekOneGOP; Happy2BMe; potlatch; onyx; ntnychik; Grampa Dave
This is identical in ominous tone to the trend set in motion thirty years ago by Victor Marchetti and John D. Marks, The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence, Laurel/Dell, 1974.

Che Guevara was nailed by trapping his satellite call to his mother; OBL was another mother we tracked with technology (Predator/Hellfire), only to have the Clinton Administration fail to make the sale.

But in the larger sense, is there a proven CIA presence here, or more dark hints?

150K? William Byrd spent that every day on a post office with his name on it.

The CIA? Really? Gee, violated their charter? When it is the FBI tasked with the domestic counterterrorist threat?

What would Colleen Rowley say?

Yet the prevailing chorus is to ram through the extant intelligence "reform" which emerged from the Olympian 911 Commission giving the DCI command of all satellites--

OBL and his crew are reduced to using human messengers because they fear electronic monitoring--

Just as the robust law enforcement presence on the net caught Scott Ritter making a date with two minor girls, so it can intercept and prevent darker deeds.

As long as they aren't after misspellers, FR has nothing to fear.

35 posted on 11/28/2004 10:06:59 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: FreedomCalls
Someone (Bamford?) said that NSA measures their computing power not in number of workstations, but in acres.

Bamford knows his stuff, that's for sure. "The Puzzle Palace" ranks as one of my favorite books. Right up there with "Honorable Treachery."

36 posted on 11/28/2004 10:08:45 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: Prime Choice
I have, and have read, James Bamford, Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency, Anchor, 2002.
37 posted on 11/28/2004 10:11:45 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: FarRightTexasDude
The idea is that we could "jam" the system and screw with the Feds.

Only well-meaning twits unfamiliar with the algorithmic technology think you can use keyword spam to mess with the email spying system. It is a far more sophisticated mathematical technology and would require a very sophisticated attack designed by very knowledgeable mathematicians to spam. I've seen no one suggest an Echelon spamming technique yet that would defeat even a primitive implementation of the theory, and this is an area of mathematical theory I am very familiar with.

Fortunately, the terrorists are generally as ignorant as the internet using public in this regard. There is not that many countries that produce large quantities of decent mathematicians, never mind terrorist producing countries. Welcome to the future battlefield...

38 posted on 11/28/2004 10:15:41 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: Prime Choice
The CIA is quietly funding federal research into surveillance of Internet chatrooms as part of an effort to identify possible terrorists, newly released documents reveal.

I sleep soundly every night knowing that the CIA is spying on chatrooms while our Southern border remains wide open.
39 posted on 11/28/2004 10:17:54 PM PST by Squealer
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To: Squealer
I sleep soundly every night knowing that the CIA is spying on chatrooms while our Southern border remains wide open.

Touché!

40 posted on 11/28/2004 10:20:14 PM PST by Prime Choice (I like Democrats, too. Let's exchange recipes.)
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To: FarRightTexasDude; Prime Choice; Nita Nupress; vannrox; Inspector Harry Callahan; Boyd; ...
Archival Echelon-related FR threads:

A really oldie, but goody:
ECHELON: the Global Surveillance System

ECHELON: America's Secret Global Surveillance Network
CIA Patching ECHELON Shortcomings
Worldwide spying network is revealed - (Should we be complaining about Echelon?)
'ECHELON' WAS MY BABY
(NSA Echelon-Big Brother-All-Seeing Eye Is Watching) (Unprecedented) Privacy Warning Across Europe
What are those words that trigger Echelon?
EU Echelon Committee Calls for Increased Use of Encryption
U.S. to Close Eavesdropping Post [ECHELON]
Echelon Panel Calls It a Day
Japanese Newspaper Reports American Echelon Spy Activity
Echelon - Japanese diplomatic dispatches infiltrated by English-speaking spies
Bush facing EU condemnation over spy network (Echelon)
Echelon - When spies fall out
What is ECHELON?
How does ECHELON work?
Skeptics question scope of NSA’s information gathering with Echelon
Newspaper: Echelon Gave Authorities Warning Of Attacks
Did Echelon Overlook Terrorist Threat?
Echelon Gave Authorities Warning Of Attacks
Hunting Terrorists And Leaks(Echelon recorded terrorists -Nobody listened)

41 posted on 11/28/2004 10:20:44 PM PST by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace (Michael <a href = "http://www.michaelmoore.com/" title="Miserable Failure">"Miserable Failure"</a>)
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To: Prime Choice
Echelon dealt exclusively with semantic forests which rendered those messages irrelevant.

Precisely. Which is why those idiotic email "echelon spamming" things are so stupid. This is not some wanker-esque keyword matching scheme but sophisticated mathematics.

Incidentally, far slicker technology than semantic forests is under development in the US private sector. There have been some very interesting theoretical developments in the computational side of algorithmic information theory, which is the grand-daddy of all this stuff. People have no idea what kind of wicked ingenuity comes out of the US.

42 posted on 11/28/2004 10:20:45 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: Prime Choice
Touché!

If I were a terrorist I'd feel confident knowing two things:
  1. Electronic communications are being monitored.
  2. Borders are wide open.

43 posted on 11/28/2004 10:26:34 PM PST by Squealer
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To: Texas Eagle

#newsgarden


44 posted on 11/28/2004 10:27:10 PM PST by injin
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To: FreedomCalls
Someone (Bamford?) said that NSA measures their computing power not in number of workstations, but in acres.

Fast supercomputing systems are small. Memory latency matters A LOT for supercomputing codes of these types, and you can't get good latency at the clock speeds of today when your system is scattered hither and yon. Speed of light and all that.

They may have acres of systems, but they'll probably be racks of conventional systems for the most part, just like any other big data center. For better or worse, consumer grade crap is pretty close to the cutting edge of performance for this type of thing. The AMD64 systems being a glorious example of this.

45 posted on 11/28/2004 10:28:00 PM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: WarPaint

I've learned lots about Islam on Paltalk also. I just wish I could understand what is being said in some of those Arabic speaking rooms. I'm sure they are monitoring those, and they should from what I've heard.


46 posted on 11/28/2004 10:31:29 PM PST by moonpie57 (Fred Howell McMurray, Jr...The man on my POW bracelet)
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace

Whitfield Diffie is yer friend !


47 posted on 11/28/2004 10:49:41 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. )
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To: Senator Pardek
bmp.

I think you're flacking for him, and it's not the first time it's crossed my mind.

49 Posted on 02/29/2000 04:24:08 PST by metalbird1


48 posted on 11/28/2004 10:59:12 PM PST by Askel5 ( Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. )
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To: devolve

Thanks for the ping!


49 posted on 11/28/2004 11:10:31 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: SAJ

Bingo:

"NSA and CIA are indeed so prohibited. However, there is no prohibition at law against NSA/CIA/USwhomever listening in/monitoring citizens of the UK ... and similarly there is no prohibition at law against MI6 listening in/monitoring citizens of the US."

"This curious little legal quirk has matured over the years into Echelon and related systems."

Then, throw the Mossad and KGB into this mix, and the Islamofascist trolls who use the internet as a communication or PR tool, could be in for a knock, knock game.


50 posted on 11/28/2004 11:11:17 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Writers of hate GW/Christians/ Republicans = GIM members, GAY INFECTED MEDIA!)
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