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Prodigy, 12, Compared To Mozart
60 Minutes ^

Posted on 11/29/2004 8:27:37 AM PST by MaineRepublic

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To: MaineRepublic

"Since I don't think many of you watch 60 Minutes, I thought I would share this amazing, non-political story with you. At least I find it amazing."


Thanks for posting this. I, too, watched it...I was changing channels and stumbled onto it. I figure the kid is a savant.


101 posted on 11/29/2004 10:15:27 AM PST by Maria S
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To: seraphMTH

He is no Mozart. He is not even close to a Bach.

I know Mozart's work fairly well but I am no expert. The scene in Amedeus where F. Murray Abraham ( won an Academy Aware for it) curses God for Mozart was pretty accurate. Abraham played Mozart contemporary Salierni (sp?). He never was as good as Mozart and the film portrayed Salierni as destroying Mozart. It is somewhat fictional but he curses God for putting Mozart on earth. Mozart could pour out beautiful music as fast as he could notated it

There will never be another Mozart. Bach was a another giant but he lived much longer than Mozart.


102 posted on 11/29/2004 10:19:29 AM PST by FrankRepublican (Boycott NBC & their parent company General Electric for smearing the USMC)
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To: Big Digger
It's a matter of principle and CBS' is non-existent.

You and me both. I listened to the Patriots game on the radio yesterday rather than tune in to CBS to watch it. I simply will not watch that network again.

103 posted on 11/29/2004 10:22:40 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (All I ask from livin' is to have no chains on me. All I ask from dyin' is to go naturally.)
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To: Owen

Good post. I doubt there will ever be another Mozart. If this kid is just writing slight variations of the melody for different instruments then he is not on the same planet as Mozart.

The stuff Mozart wrote in his early teens was far better than most great classical composers best work. Young Mozart apparently learned much from Bach's son J.C.. J.C. was a pretty good composer with wonderful music but he did not have the depth of his father or Mozart.

Mozart was a once in 1,000 years phenomena.


104 posted on 11/29/2004 10:28:53 AM PST by FrankRepublican (Boycott NBC & their parent company General Electric for smearing the USMC)
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To: FrankRepublican
Was Mozart even in this world when he composed?

I doubt he was. I know that when I really listen to Mozart I am taken out of it. Which is very good.

105 posted on 11/29/2004 10:33:45 AM PST by ARridgerunner
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To: AnAmericanMother
when i was studying jazz and trying to learn how to improv, we would always try to put as many notes into a solo as we could, to show how fast we could go or the show the knowledge of our scales or what not, now take the masters of improv jazz, sure they can play alot of notes and know their scales but we remember that sustained note or the intonation on a variance of the original melody.

with maturity this kid may settle down and make music that blasts Mozart away or he may fade away into obscurity. lets give the kid a chance to change our world.

106 posted on 11/29/2004 10:34:02 AM PST by Docbarleypop (Navy Doc)
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To: Owen

I would hold Mozart and Bach to be the highest level of musical genius...followed closely by Beethoven, then closely followed by a whole host of genius such as Stravinsky, Bartok, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, etc. We judge this level on a lifes body of work.

My point is that there is a whole continuum of genius. We understand little about the functioning and capacity of the human brain, even less about what constitutes true genius.

IMHO, the highest level of genius is reserved for those who not only have superior technical facility, and a breath of technique, but an ability to reach inside themselves and produce creative work that connects and is understood at an emotional level, as well as a technical level.

I havent heard this young man, but he seems to have the technical facility. That doesnt mean that he will also achieve the highest level of creative expression. I would hope he does.

One aspect IMHO that is overlooked about genius is that during their process of creation they often reject much that they produce. I suspect that this was true with Mozart, although he was able to write out his themes and melodies verbatim, I believe he utilized the same creative destructive process to arrive at a final product, just much much quicker and efficiently than the average genius could.

If this boy can maintain the discipline to not self indulge his obvious gifts, he has a good chance to achieve the highest standards.

Comparing him to Mozart at this point however, is not doing this boy any favors IMHO.


107 posted on 11/29/2004 10:45:36 AM PST by Dat Mon (clever tagline under construction)
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To: FrankRepublican

There is a link in the thread to his piece. That's what I listened to. Anyone can hear the same thing. It's not difficult. It's straightforward. The kid is playing the same melody on different instruments.

Folks, music isn't opinion. If it was purely opinion then universities would not have spent the billions of dollars in sum over hundreds of years to teach it. If it was opinion, what would there be to teach? There are objective techniques and aspects to it all that are concrete and teachable.

This young man is writing a melody and is able to write it for various instruments, and that's a nice thing for him to be able to do at age 10 or 12. But he is not merging multiple themes from those different instruments into one output that has some thematic coherency. And no, thematic coherency is not some touchy feely phrase that means nothing. It means that some underlying tune, or technique, underlies it all and holds it all together.

This young man has everything holding together because all the instruments are playing the same tune. That's not coherency. That's just a child writing music.

You don't have to be a music expert to hear this. The comparison with Mozart makes no sense at all on a purely objective measurement basis. Mozart's work at the same age is in a different league. Mozart was so far ahead of the world that he added phrases that merged with a whole just as a joke. He added phrases that sounded like human laughter, and made it fit the melody and conform to theme.

This young man has a very long distance to travel to the destination of Mozartville. Mozart had already arrived there at younger age, had taken up residence, furnished the rooms and was hiring painters for the exterior.


108 posted on 11/29/2004 10:50:01 AM PST by Owen
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To: Doc Savage
During the program it is referenced that he often writes severely complex pieces which "even" he cannot play.

I have a 9 years old grandson who is a fine pianist/composer for his age. His compositions are generally a little beyond his physical ability to play ... interesting phenomena.

109 posted on 11/29/2004 10:54:46 AM PST by Silent One
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To: Owen

"Mozart was so far ahead of the world that he added phrases that merged with a whole just as a joke. He added phrases that sounded like human laughter, and made it fit the melody and conform to theme."

You are touching on another important aspect of true genius that I didnt mention explicitly...the ability to create something new..to innovate...to explore new territory in new ways.


110 posted on 11/29/2004 10:58:47 AM PST by Dat Mon (clever tagline under construction)
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To: Owen

If you really do know something about Mozart you will know that his father was a composer that pushed his son to perform at an early age. That might have something to do with why he became a composer. This 12 year old kid's parents don't have any musical background at all, and everything the kid has done has been on his own.


111 posted on 11/29/2004 11:03:48 AM PST by MaineRepublic (Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. -- Euripides)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Mozart and Bach have a heavenly simplicity about them even at their most complex.

That's because, like ogres and onions, they have layers!

Zeugma ducks, heading for stage, left

112 posted on 11/29/2004 11:12:34 AM PST by zeugma (Come to the Dark Side...... We have cookies!)
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To: BritishBulldog
So....what you done since?

Was accepted to Julliard at the age of 15, but declined because there's no money to be made in music, and I had equal passion in the sciences. Went on to graduate from Stanford University with a double major in physics and economics. Much happier now.

113 posted on 11/29/2004 11:17:08 AM PST by seraphMTH
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To: seraphMTH

Maybe I was a bit harsh on the kid, but he shouldn't be compared to Mozart or Saint Saens (two of my favorite composers). That got my blood boiling. More along the lines of Goldmark, Previn, Glass would be a more apt comparison...


114 posted on 11/29/2004 11:20:38 AM PST by seraphMTH
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To: seraphMTH

If you're anywhere near Atlanta GA, we could use you in the choir . . . < g >


115 posted on 11/29/2004 11:20:52 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of ye Chace (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: AnAmericanMother

I may very well live in Atlanta fairly soon. If you sincerely need a bass-baritone, I'd be interested (although I can't sing nearly as well).


116 posted on 11/29/2004 11:22:09 AM PST by seraphMTH
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To: dmz
but I try very hard to remember that "This music is crap" really means "I don't like this music."

Ya. The me I was 20 years ago would puke at much of the music that has managed to accumulate on my hard disk. There is still stuff that I find absolutely unlistenable, but I thought the same thing about the 67th Psalm by Charles Ives the first time I heard it. That particular piece taught me the power and possibility that can be found in carefully crafted dissonance.

117 posted on 11/29/2004 11:23:14 AM PST by zeugma (Come to the Dark Side...... We have cookies!)
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To: seraphMTH
"Typical post-modernist classical noise."

I agree. people are surprised that a kid could compose such cloying little pieces, I'm more surprised by the fact that ADULTS are composing the same crap.

Maybe, if people will quite fawning over him, he'll grow out of it and compose something worthwhile. If not, all this praise will just retard his growth.

118 posted on 11/29/2004 11:25:36 AM PST by proust
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To: MaineRepublic

Its called pianist envy!


119 posted on 11/29/2004 11:28:16 AM PST by waverna (I shall do neither. I have killed my captain...and my friend.)
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To: MaineRepublic
But Jay knew he wanted a cello, so his mother brought him to a music store where he was shown a miniature cello. "And he just sat there. He ...started playing on it," recalls Orna. "And I was like, 'How do you know how to do this?'"

If this is true, this is kind of spooky.
120 posted on 11/29/2004 11:29:04 AM PST by oldbrowser (You lost the election.....................Get over it.)
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