[shibumi]

That is in fact the exact position of many Catholic theologians.

[Proud_texan]

Thanks, I didn't know that but I didn't figure it was original. I do think that it's hard for the human mind to understand how miserable that (living outside of God's love) would be so we envision physical pain. While it's hard to understand what it would really be like I have come to believe the lack of Grace would be worse.