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A lesson for the liberal elite
Boston Globe ^ | November 30, 2004 | Bernard Moon

Posted on 11/29/2004 11:55:35 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife

IN A recent speech at Tufts University, Andy Rooney reflected on the election and said, according to The Tufts Daily, that Christian fundamentalism is a result of "a lack of education. They haven't been exposed to what the world has to offer."

Those comments as well as the identification of the "bigoted Christian redneck" after Election Day in various editorials left me wondering: Where do these "liberal elites" get this fictional image of Christians? When did this distorted perspective begin in our cultural history? How can I work to bridge this gap?

Rooney is reflective of the "liberal elite" in America that suffers from an odd disconnect with much of America and those who voted for President Bush. With respect to Isaac Asimov, I have decided to create "The Three Political Laws of Christian Fundamentalists" for the confused "liberal elite":

A Christian is a human being capable of independent, logical reasoning to the highest order.

A Christian is not a mindless entity seeking to obey public religious leaders, such as Pat Robertson, John Paul II, or Ralph Reed, when voting on the future of America.

A Christian must protect his own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the Bible.

These laws might serve a good base as these elites attempt to reach out to those in "Jesusland" over the next four years and work to correct their lenses that only allows them to see "homophobic knuckle-draggers."

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004electionbias; aclumia; andyrooney; antichristian; antichristianbigotry; bigots; bushwins; cbs; christian; doublestandard; election; elite; faith; hatespeech; liberalbigots; liberalelites; mediabias; pc; politicallycorrect; religion; religiousintolerance; seebs; traitorslose

1 posted on 11/29/2004 11:55:35 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

As frustrating as it is, the Bible predicted it a long time ago with perfect clarity. It makes it clear that the most obvious truths will sound like foolishness to non-believers. It makes it clear that Christ's message will divide, not unite. It makes it clear that His followers will indeed be persecuted and hated by non-believers. It's still maddening, especially because their seething hatred is so illogical and so totally without reason, but it has been clearly foretold. That's what I try to fall back on and take comfort in.

MM


2 posted on 11/30/2004 12:06:18 AM PST by MississippiMan (Americans should not be sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.)
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To: MississippiMan
It makes it clear that His followers will indeed be persecuted and hated by non-believers.

Yes. What we in America endure today is far short of what Christians suffered in past ages and even in Islamic nations today.

Our forefathers would still be upset at the persecution and bigotry that goes on today in America.

Godless communism merged with hedonistic pleasures during the Baby Boom. The institutional effort to get God out of the public eye is a post WWII agenda. Freedom of religion DOES NOT MEAN freedom FROM religion.

3 posted on 11/30/2004 12:15:02 AM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: MississippiMan
Another prediction that fits: the statue of mankind in Daniel's vision... all the homogenous and strong empires are way behind us: now 'mankind' has reached the clay feet stage, a multi-cultural weak and brittle clay dried in the sun, a metaphor for the layers of national alliances and elastic ethics.

Next comes the time when we trip up and crash down. Anyone have the reference I'm interpreting/paraphrasing?

4 posted on 11/30/2004 12:15:49 AM PST by rocknotsand ( "I don't want any messages saying we are holding our position... We're not holding anything!")
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Right... Christians are uneducated, blind and easy to command. Where have we heard that before? Liberals will never get it. <snort


5 posted on 11/30/2004 12:22:55 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: rocknotsand

Without looking it up, I think it is Daniel's vision in Daniel 9. But the clay and the iron were mixed together in this final civilization -- meaning clay and iron don't mix. It is the portrait of a divided kingdom. The iron is a left over from the Roman Empire that was out of iron, the clay is something I can't remember. Point is that there is a world wide cultural divide - as we Freepers evidence every time we log on to this site.


6 posted on 11/30/2004 12:25:42 AM PST by Californiajones ("The apprehension of beauty is the cure for apathy" - Thomas Aquinas)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Where do these "liberal elites" get this fictional image of Christians? When did this distorted perspective begin in our cultural history?

Two very good questions. America hasn't been this caustic toward Christianity ever!
Saying that the Bible predicts men will reject Christ isn't really the answer here. We know that men will consider the spiritual as foolishness.

When did that distorted mantra that all Christians are uneducated bigots, begin? I personally think it has been part of the overall "sexual revolution", especially the gay rights movement. Now, anyone who considers another's sexuality as wrong has been played off as some kind of uneducated Christian bigot.

7 posted on 11/30/2004 12:28:17 AM PST by ThirstyMan
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; rocknotsand
Funny, I went to a tony Ivy league college, and graduate school at an equally prestigious university and I am a spirit filled academic. (I like to say a "charismatic intellectual Christian") St. Paul was an educated Pharisee and "intellectual" of his day as was Daniel, who was "schooled in the culture of the Chaldeans" (another intellectual). It is really Andy Rooney and company who are the ignoramuses. C.S. Lewis or J.R. Tolkien, anyone? They were also Christians. The "elite" mistakes shopworn Soviet style politically correct posturing for education.
8 posted on 11/30/2004 12:31:58 AM PST by Californiajones ("The apprehension of beauty is the cure for apathy" - Thomas Aquinas)
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To: Californiajones

To be an "elite" means that you think of yourself and your ideas, as far superior to others. This lack of humility causes an elite to condemn others because he finds no basis, using his own vocabulary, for their values.


9 posted on 11/30/2004 12:42:29 AM PST by ThirstyMan
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To: MississippiMan
The problem is morality, we have it and they don't. They want to be guilt free when they engage in immoral behavior, like stealing (taxes), murder (abortion), adultery and such. In their heart they know they are doing evil, but they really hate us for pointing that out. They are doomed, and their world view is doomed too. Secularism will die, right now Islam is killing secularism in Europe, our elites should be grateful that they live in a Christan USA. We will let them keep their heads
10 posted on 11/30/2004 12:43:53 AM PST by jpsb
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To: Californiajones; MississippiMan; goldstategop; weegee; ThirstyMan; jpsb; All

..............The short answer is that it was not the Communist Party that made the left, but the (small 'c') communist Idea. It is the idea, as old as the Tower of Babel, that humanity can build a highway to Heaven. It is the idea of returning to an Earthly Paradise, a garden of social harmony and justice. It is the idea that inspires Jewish radicals and liberals of a tikkun olam, a healing of the cosmic order. It is the Enlightenment illusion of the perfectibility of man. And it is the siren song of the serpent in Eden: "Eat of this Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and you shall be as God."

The intoxicating vision of a social redemption achieved by Them-this is what creates the left, and makes the believers so self-righteous.

And it did so long before Karl Marx. It is the vision of this redemption that continues to inspire and animate them despite the still-fresh ruins of their Communist dreams.

It is this same idea that is found in the Social Gospel which impressed the youthful Hillary Clinton at the United Methodist Church in Park Ridge, Illinois. She later encountered the same idea in the New Left at Yale and in the Venceremos Brigade in Communist Cuba, and in the writings of the New Leftist who introduced her to the "politics of meaning" even after she had become America's First Lady. It is the idea that drives her comrades in the Children's Defense Fund, the National Organization for Women, the Al Sharpton House of Justice and the other progressive causes which for that reason still look to her as a political leader.

For these self-appointed social redeemers, the goal-"social justice"-is not about rectifying particular injustices, which would be practical and modest, and therefore conservative. Their crusade is about rectifying injustice in the very order of things. "Social Justice" for them is about a world reborn, a world in which prejudice and violence are absent, in which everyone is equal and equally advantaged and without fundamentally conflicting desires. It is a world that could only come into being through a re-structuring of human nature and of society itself.

Even though they are too prudent and self-protective to name this future anymore, the post-Communist left still passionately believes it possible. But it is a world that has never existed and never will. Moreover, as the gulags and graveyards of the last century attest, to attempt the impossible is to invite the catastrophic in the world we know.

But the fall of Communism taught the progressives who were its supporters very little. Above all, it failed to teach them the connection between their utopian ideals and the destructive consequences that flowed from them. The fall of Communism has had a cautionary impact only on the overt agendas of the political left. The arrogance that drives them has hardly diminished. The left is like a millenarian sect that erroneously predicted the end of the world, and now must regroup to revitalize its faith.

No matter how opportunistically the left's agendas have been modified, however, no matter how circumspectly its goals have been set, no matter how generous its concessions to political reality, the faithful have not given up their self-justifying belief that they can bring about a social redemption. In other words, a world in which human consciousness is changed, human relations refashioned, social institutions transformed, and in which "social justice" prevails.

Because the transformation progressives seek is ultimately total, the power they seek must be total as well. In the end, the redemption they envision cannot be achieved as a political compromise, even though compromises may be struck along the way. Their brave new world can ultimately be secured only by the complete surrender of the resisting force. In short, the transformation of the world requires the permanent entrenchment of the saints in power. Therefore, everything is justified that serves to achieve the continuance of Them. .........

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39611fde5615.htm


11 posted on 11/30/2004 12:54:38 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

There are Jews who are religious and observant of their faith. There are also those who are secular atheists or agnostic at best (Larry King considers himself agnostic).

Some atheist "Jews" like Art Spiegelman (who would fall on the left politically, he even had an exclusive audience with John Kerry, to kick the tires so to speak) have been so bold as to ask what is there that can be examined to "unite" Jews as a culture without falling back on religion or the Holocaust.

They are like people without a nation. They turn their back on their faith yet they still want to "belong".


12 posted on 11/30/2004 1:00:31 AM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

The best home that a man constructs for himself will only be used by him for upwards of 100 years. Of which he will spend roughly one third of that time asleep.

Perhaps they should be giving some thought to the possible existence of an afterlife.

Also they should realize that constructing a society where the government "gives" everything to the citizen can also take away "everything" or control conditions by which they bestow things. A man who provides for himself does not get lazy or comfortable. He is accountable and can reap the rewards. The ant and the grasshoper is not a new tale.


13 posted on 11/30/2004 1:04:59 AM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Nice, thanks


14 posted on 11/30/2004 1:10:25 AM PST by jpsb
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Rooney's memory will go down in history with the same respect as Rather's.


15 posted on 11/30/2004 1:44:32 AM PST by garylmoore (God Bless you W, you have prevailed.)
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To: goldstategop
Right... Christians are uneducated, blind and easy to command. Where have we heard that before? Liberals will never get it.

That's one reason for keeping a low profile. Let 'em continue to underestimate us, and underbreed themselves out of power.

16 posted on 11/30/2004 2:33:36 AM PST by TomSmedley (Technical writer)
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To: weegee

Yes. Religion must seem so messy to socialists, communists and new world order types.


17 posted on 11/30/2004 3:22:30 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
The description liberal elite is an oxymoron.
18 posted on 11/30/2004 3:25:20 AM PST by mewzilla
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"Christian fundamentalism is a result of a lack of education."

In fact, such a contention is a result of a lack of education--and this is a result of crippling stupidity since the necessary education is available to all.

19 posted on 11/30/2004 3:27:50 AM PST by Savage Beast (This is the choice: confrontation or capitulation. Appeasement is capitulation.)
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To: MississippiMan
It's still maddening, especially because their seething hatred is so illogical and so totally without reason

Yes, seething hatred was what drove the leaders of that day to have Christ Crucified. They couldn't stand to have someone saying the truth and that they were responsible for their actions. Liberals are the same way as they show their seething hatred for President George W. Bush; calling him a 'Liar' and an 'idiot' at the same time.

Right now, their seething hatred is on Condi Rice. Why? Because she is a african-american woman who believes in responsibilities and civic duties and this exposes liberals as the lawless hedonists that they are.

That's why I recommend praying for the President, the administration, congress and our country; because folks who stand up for responsibility and duty are vilified daily by lawless men and women. Those who uphold the Constitution and honor, are slandered and insulted.

In a number of cases, federal appeals court nominees were vilified simply because they were "Christians" or "Catholics".

Yes, it is predicted and predicable that the righteous will be vilified. Let the light of Christ within them shine forth as the noon day sun, and let the enemies that slander them not be able to stand before them, be scattered, and seen no more.

20 posted on 11/30/2004 5:14:22 AM PST by sr4402
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

well said. Any references available to Hillary's favorite writers and particularly useful quotes from her? Let's build an index of these to have handy as she seeks to arrogate herself to POTUS, or Queen.


21 posted on 11/30/2004 5:46:38 AM PST by The Spirit Of Allegiance
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To: ThirstyMan

The idea of Christians as Rednecks, hicks, unwashed masses, etc. is part of not intelligence but spiritual wisdom, or the lack thereof. "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom." Those who don't 'get it' are spiritually blind to such truth, because of hardness of heart spiritually; preconceived paradigms preclude considering God, Creation, the Resurrection--as well as the practical implications of the Ten Commandments. What is obvious to some, is literally incomprehensible to others. It's a God thing....we change hearts by loving our neighbors, with strong healthy boundaries--and as St. Augustine said, 'preach the Gospel to everyone--and when necessary, use words.'


22 posted on 11/30/2004 5:54:29 AM PST by The Spirit Of Allegiance
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To: Blurblogger
"It's a God thing....we change hearts by loving our neighbors,..."

It most certainly is a God thing and yes, love is our message, not power. And I notice that Christ's message of love contrasts strongly with the Islamic message of power and intolerant violence.

I am grateful that we, the US, still hold a military advantage over these beheading savages. But, if that advantage is ever tipped, won't we be incredibly vulnerable? Can you imagine that day? I can't. It would truly be the end of the world.

23 posted on 11/30/2004 7:06:49 AM PST by ThirstyMan
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"The intoxicating vision of a social redemption achieved by Them-this is what creates the left, and makes the believers so self-righteous."

Phew! You sure put a lot of thinking into that post!
I was up earlier and had to retreat back to bed so I'm just reading your post now. I agree, there is a Tower of Babel mentality to the Left's movement that man can solve his own problems. The mantra seems to be John Lennon's theme song "Imagine"....imagine there's no God, is it in a nutshell.

Well, we must keep our eyes focused on the Light and trust He will guide us through these perilous times. We need to maintain the 50% plus advantage, that's for sure, to keep America on the right path.

24 posted on 11/30/2004 7:15:22 AM PST by ThirstyMan
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To: Californiajones

What I find with my leftist friends and acquaintances (I refuse to call them "liberals") is that they cannot in any way defend, explain or promote their positions with anything even remotely resembling logic. Many of these people consider themselves intelligent and well-educated, but when I've utterly laid waste to their ideas and the consequences of their ideas, their fall-back defense is to say, "Well, you're very good with words".
I have a theory as to why logic escapes the lefties: Genesis tells us that (I'm paraphrasing here) "In the Beginning, was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.." Well, the Greek word "logos" is the root of our word "logic" and, since they're completely removed from God (the Word), they are utterly devoid of the logic which proceeds from Him.
So, they're left with name-calling, false accusations and screeching.
I don't look for any change in any of the lefties I know, though. I just use logic on them for my personal amusement.


25 posted on 11/30/2004 7:20:30 AM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"IN A recent speech at Tufts University, Andy Rooney reflected on the election and said, according to The Tufts Daily, that Christian fundamentalism is a result of "a lack of education. They haven't been exposed to what the world has to offer.""

Dear Andy Rooney:

I am a Magna Cum Laude Graduate of Dartmouth College.

I have a Masters Degree from the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy (located at Tufts University)

I am a Christian. An Elder in the Presbyterian Church. I believe in the fundamentals of what Christianity teaches about who God is, who I am, and God's gracious offer of reconciliation.

I voted for George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004.

Any questions?

26 posted on 11/30/2004 7:35:51 AM PST by chs68
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Thx for a great post.

Religion must seem so messy to the libs...

A favorite 1996 sermon fits in well here as a 5 minute primer (especially for any DU trolls). Here are some bites...

"In summary they would admit "Morality is important to us only in that it marks transgressions of our customs and our feelings." In their view, immorality is not a debasing act in itself. It must threaten their tradition or their health…. Ask them "What effect does this have on your soul?" …the question remains unimportant and irrelevant to them.

"Now this word "virtue" is used in association with man … so what is the proper fulfillment of man? Peter is saying that "the proper fulfillment" of man is to reflect the character and the morality of Jesus Christ.

"God has called us to a standard of morality, and a standard of knowledge, and a standard of self-control, and a standard of perseverance, and a standard of Godliness, and a standard of brotherly kindness.

"He has called us to a standard. And what is that standard? His son. Jesus Christ is that standard.

27 posted on 11/30/2004 8:20:21 AM PST by rocknotsand ( "I don't want any messages saying we are holding our position... We're not holding anything!")
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

link fixed...
apologies
28 posted on 11/30/2004 8:23:18 AM PST by rocknotsand ( "I don't want any messages saying we are holding our position... We're not holding anything!")
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To: All

bttt


29 posted on 11/30/2004 8:43:36 AM PST by rocknotsand ( "I don't want any messages saying we are holding our position... We're not holding anything!")
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To: rocknotsand

It's funny because when I read the article I remember thinking back to my college/career class at church and there were so many "intellectuals" in that group that when we discussed things like pre/mid/post millenial rapture, dispensationalism, etc. I felt alot of these brainiacs were just scratching the surface of God's depths!


30 posted on 11/30/2004 9:56:15 AM PST by princess leah (\)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
That was one of the most eye opening posts I have EVER read in on Freeper. I will have to sit and stew over this for the next few months as there is a new subtlety involved with the true believers on the Left. It is a new subtlety that must be rooted out and challenged in a firm and sophisticated manner by us on the right.

In fact, I would pose that this is a spiritual battle as well as being an intellectual battle of ideas.

The old media has been mortally wounded because people have seen through the veils of the Left - it is up to us now to replace the MSM.
31 posted on 11/30/2004 9:57:00 AM PST by Californiajones ("The apprehension of beauty is the cure for apathy" - Thomas Aquinas)
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To: All

bttt


32 posted on 11/30/2004 12:54:15 PM PST by rocknotsand ( "I don't want any messages saying we are holding our position... We're not holding anything!")
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To: MississippiMan
...their seething hatred is so illogical and so totally without reason, but it has been clearly foretold.

Amen. The Destroyer will not leave truth and righteousness unchallenged. Those who follow the Lord have come to expect the opposition, even relish it to a degree, once the source is properly understood.

33 posted on 11/30/2004 12:58:01 PM PST by TChris (You keep using that word. I don't think it means what yHello, I'm a TAGLINE vir)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

reading later


34 posted on 12/01/2004 4:42:22 PM PST by ChicagoRighty (Surrounded by libbies and damn tired of it!)
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