Denver Mayor to Light Community Menorah (He's the "Merry Christmas" censor)

Jewish Colorado ^ | Dec 04 | Jewish Colorado

[churchillbuff]

The Allied Jewish Federation of Colorado has announced that Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper will once again light the community Menorah on the first night of Chanukah. The public is invited to join in the annual community lighting ceremony on Tuesday, December 7 beginning at 5:30 pm.

“I look forward to joining the Denver Jewish community in lighting the community Menorah again this year,” said Mayor John Hickenlooper, who will make his second consecutive appearance at the Federation’s ceremony. “Chanukah brings communities across Colorado and the world together in celebration of light, freedom and peace.”

The community Menorah is located at 300 S. Dahlia Street, corner of East Alameda and South Dahlia Street in Denver, next to the Allied Jewish Federation of Colorado building.

“We are honored that Mayor Hickenlooper will once again be taking part in our community Menorah lighting ceremony,” stated Doug Seserman, President and CEO of Federation. “The Mayor’s presence represents Denver’s support and observance of this important Jewish holiday and we appreciate his participation,” Seserman continued.

Lighting ceremonies will continue nightly through Chanukah beginning with the Mayor lighting on December 7 and ending on December 14. The lighting schedule for December 8-14 is still tentative, but Federation anticipates that various local Jewish agencies will host the lighting each night.

[Mo1]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1292776/posts?page=73#73

Yes I did read Post #73 where you wrote this

You're right, that is a double standard. The fact that you view it as an expression of Jewish anti-Christian sentiment is a reflection of your own bigotry, not the facts

After churchillbuff posted this

Since I posted the article, let me give a try. The mayor is bringing the prestige of his official presence to a Menorah lighting - - a form of government acknowledgment of religion. Fine by me! More power to him! But then he turns around and says government can't acknowledge Christmas by saying "Merry Christmas". That's a double standard on the mayor's part.

Again .. you are assuming that because we don't like the double standard by this Mayor that many here are Anti-Jewish .. which is not the case

As for the Mayor .. he only changed his mind about using the words "Merry Christmas" AFTER a public out cry

[SJackson]

I read it, I was responding to you. I don't think you said you felt he was tolerant at all, but I did think that you all but called the poster anti-semitic with your sarcastic tone. I thought the discussion needed to evolve to one of our tradition, as Americans, of religious tolerance.

You're right on my opinion of the poster based on our posting history. I doubt the thread will evolve, if it does great. The mayor made a mistake and seems to have corrected it promptly. I don't see why anyone would take him to task at this point. Yes, as some note next year could be different, but politicians tend to retain lessons like this.

[SJackson]

Again .. you are assuming that because we don't like the double standard by this Mayor that many here are Anti-Jewish .. which is not the case As for the Mayor .. he only changed his mind about using the words "Merry Christmas" AFTER a public out cry

I don't think it make's sense to discuss my opinion of other posters since they're unlikely to change.

As I noted, I don't see a double standard issue here at all. If you think there is an anti-Christian, as opposed to perhaps anti-religion one here, feel free to make the case. I think he just made a stupid decision. That doesn't mean he hates Christian's. There was an outcry. And he fixed it. That's the way things should work. What else would you expect him to do.

[RFEngineer]

"The mayor made a mistake and seems to have corrected it promptly. I don't see why anyone would take him to task at this point."

I would take him to task. I don't think he is fit to light a tree, a menorah, or a cigar for that matter.

As you noted with your own experience with a poster, slights against ones faith are difficult to "fix" with a political gesture.

He should sit these holidays out and reflect on his role, as a highly visible public official, and how he has sullied a legacy of religious tolerance. Then he should try again next year.....only this time, be tolerant to all religions.

[SJackson]

I would take him to task. I don't think he is fit to light a tree, a menorah, or a cigar for that matter....He should sit these holidays out and reflect on his role, as a highly visible public official, and how he has sullied a legacy of religious tolerance. Then he should try again next year.....only this time, be tolerant to all religions.

That's fine. He certainly hasn't made any friends this week.

[VOA]

Reminds me of Michael Medved going ballistic when he was "back east"
(Boston) and the government building had a big menorah at holiday time, but no
traditional trappings of the Christian aspect of the holidays.

IIRC, Medved's host said the Jewish symbol was permitted because it was
a "cultural symbol" (not a religious one).

[Mo1]

If you think there is an anti-Christian, as opposed to perhaps anti-religion one here, feel free to make the case

If he was anti-religion he wouldn't go to the lighting of the Menorah

Plus I never said he "hates" Christian's

But he does seem to have a problem with allowing Christian's to sing Christmas Carols in the parade and the use of the words Merry Christmas

I'm glad to hear he changed his mind about it

But the point his .. he should never have done this in the first place

[RFEngineer]

"That's fine. He certainly hasn't made any friends this week."

LOL! well said.

[SJackson]

But the point his .. he should never have done this in the first place

I agree. He has a Quaker wife but after checking several bios, I find no reference regarding religion for him, nor any relation to religious charities or other organizations. He's clueless. I doubt there was any malice here.

I still don't understand how attending a Menorah lighting on private property is different than attending the lighting of a Christmas tree and Creche on city property. To me they're the same thing.

BTW, his characterizantion of Chanukah, Chanukah brings communities across Colorado and the world together in celebration of light, freedom and peace indicates he doesn't know much about that holiday either.

[Libloather]

OTHER

What is that - a lake?

[longtermmemmory]

There are two cases in south florida which hit the media. One was in a shopping mall where a menorah was allowed but a christian theme was not. (in fact the Dade and Broward Courthouses allow Menorahs but not christian decor in the lobby)

I don't have exact citations. There was a case in Palm Beach which was settled with a Women's Group winning the right to present a manger scene. The city though that a menorah without "labels" would pass muster even though it was used exactly like a menorah. (one light lit for each night was just a coincidence.)

[Drammach]

Homosexual Indians are holy people?

I know you think it's "funny" and "ridiculous", but it's fact..
I don't know if they actually considered them "holy" in quite the sense we think of the word, but homosexuals / transvestites in the Indian community were often accorded a "special" status.
They sometimes acted as mediators in inter-tribal disputes, and were considered to have been "touched" by the gods..
But then, they thought that about crazy people too..

[Oreo Kookey]

After sending the Mayor 2 emails and a singing Christmas card I received an email from his "office" which says what the Denver Post reported about his mind changing epiphany. The email further expounds on the rational behind his mind change. I have posted the email and my comments in the threads:

"Denver Mayor Bans Merry Christmas float(Vanity)" in reply #31,

and in "Denver Mayor Hickenlooper changes mind on Merry Christmas sign!, reply 11.

Although I didn't think I should repeat it again, I did want to give you the opportunity to read what else he has to say that shows his complete air headedness. He hasn't a clue.

A very Merry Christmas to you and yours and to all the Christians in Denver and the world.

[Commie Basher]

Notice that he doesn't refer to Chanukah in a religious way either, but rather a "celebration of light, freedom and peace". Nice secular little holiday

Actually, that's to the benefit of Chanukah.

There was a news story last year in some local Queens, NY paper, about a Catholic mother upset that the school handed out holiday coloring books which had pictures for Chanukah, Kwanzaa, and other winter holidays, but no Christmas. The reason given was that Christmas is religious, but the others were "cultural." So the mother sued. Don't know how it turned out.

Also in Queens, I've seen large menorahs on city property, but no nativity scenes. I assume there's no "seperation of church and state" problem with the menorahs, because they can come in under the "cultural" loophole. The menorahs were sponsored by synagogues, so no city money paid for them, but it seems churches can't even sponsor their stuff.

[mvpel]

Christmas celebrated by Christians does not threaten religious tolerance. Yet we've been forced to secularize it gradually to the point where any non-Christian can derail any expression of Christian faith anywhere, anytime.

The fact that it can be so easily derailed is indicative not of the secularization of Christmas, but of the sinking Constitutional sand on which tax-funded displays of the Christian religion are built.

[mvpel]

I still don't understand how attending a Menorah lighting on private property is different than attending the lighting of a Christmas tree and Creche on city property. To me they're the same thing.

The authors of the Colorado Constitution didn't agree with you:

No person shall be required to attend or support any ministry or place of worship, religious sect or denomination against his consent. Nor shall any preference be given by law to any religious denomination or mode of worship.

[SJackson]

I wasn't speaking from a legal perspective, rather from a common sense perspective relative to the contensions earlier in the thread that somehow attending the private function is endorsing Chanukah at the expense of Christmas, which is being celebrated on public property.

[mvpel]

Ah, I see what you mean, thanks for the clarification.

[RFEngineer]

"The fact that it can be so easily derailed is indicative not of the secularization of Christmas, but of the sinking Constitutional sand on which tax-funded displays of the Christian religion are built."

I have a different take, as you might imagine. That Christmas has become secularized is more indicative of the growth of government into every facet of our lives, virtually replacing religion, because government does not like the competition it provides in meeting the needs of communities.

If we wanted to have a constitutional argument, the size and scope of government (that among other things, interferes with the free expression of faith) would be on a much more flimsy foundation than the expression of religious faith, I assure you. The constitution does not forbid religious displays on government property.

[mvpel]

I wasn't referring to the First Amendment, which certainly does not apply to a city government, but rather the Colorado Constitution, which does apply to Denver. It states that "no person shall be required to ... support any ... religious sect or denomination against his consent."

It's not much of a stretch to say that any taxpayer in Denver is "supporting" any tax-funded display of the Christian religion. Unless they got 100% approval on an opinion poll, or are not funding it with tax dollars, a city-building creche is a simple violation of the provisions of the Colorado Constitution.