Is It Morally Acceptable To Hope Anyone Goes To Hell?

The Federalist Patiot ^ | Dec. 6, 2004 | Dennis Prager

[derheimwill]

Yes. I must assume that any who did not seek Him in time would not have.(Exactly what happened in those last moments is another question.)

[Ken H]

I wonder if the parents of a child who died unsaved could be happy in Heaven. Any thoughts?

No, but a verse: "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes." Reveletion 7:17b

Could you clarify what you're saying? For example, were you saying "no" to my first or second sentence?

[derheimwill]

No thoughts.

[derheimwill]

We will be happy in Heaven. Period.

[Emmett McCarthy]

That is my situation and position as well. I cannot judge the status of another's soul, although I can - and should - judge the merit of their actions. I could never pray that another person be in hell, but I do hope that they're in another part of heaven far away from the part I'm in. Fair enough?

[aimhigh]

....the Lake of Fire is on the earth/i>

there's no basis for this statement. The Bible doesn't say where the Lake of Fire is. The Lake of Fire could be the sun.

[Ken H]

You said that none of the 2 million Khmer victims would have become Christians had they not been murdered. Am I correct?

Yes. I must assume that any who did not seek Him in time would not have.

According to CondorFlight (see post #209 for link):

"The coup which overthrew Sihanouk was followed by Christian growth, so that by the time Cambodia fell to the Khmer Rouge, there were some 30 Protestant churches in Phnom Penn (a growth factor of 10, in a period of 5 years)."

I'm not a statistician, but I'd say the odds favored gaining more converts in future years, had the Khmer not shut down the churches and slaughtered 2 million. Do you disagree?

[Law is not justice but process]

"All we have to remember is that God is just. I rest my case."


Your response clearly reflects a lifetime of wisdom. I have been regretting that post a bit since I wrote it. But it reflects my feelings nonetheless. Let me see if I can explain why. I am a prosecutor and deal with criminals all day from murderers to petty drug offenders. Every day I see people get in front of judges and say insincere things that always seem to lessen their punishments. Here is an extemporaneous top 10:

1. "I was running with the wrong crowd"

2. "I made poor decisions"

3. "You'll never see me in this court again"

4. "Please don't send me to prison and take me away from my family*" (*they never say their family consists of 5 children and 4 "baby-mommas")

5. "I am an drug addict, not a [murderer, rapist, armed robber, burglar, or all of the above]"

6. "I was abused as a child"

7. "I am a follower, not a leader"

8. "I only stole those [cars, motorcycles, four-wheelers, tools, quarters, sex toys] because I could not find a job"

9. "If I had only had family support I would not be a [drug dealer, burglar, rapist, serial indecent exposer]"

10. "I shot those two pimps in the back of the head in self defense"

Why judges buy this I will never understand. But they do.

Of course those that get to make excuses to the judge are but a small part of those who commit crimes. Many are not caught. We know who many are, but do not have enough admissible evidence to arrest and/or prosecute them. Many (more than the public wants to know) are acquitted by juries because the juries never get to hear the most damning evidence. Far fewer than half ever face our justice system, and far fewer still get the sentence my conception of justice demands. In short, the law is not justice, it is a process. That process rarely leads to real justice. We only nibble away at the edges.

Divine justice, in theory (as I have yet to see it in practice), is quite unlike our legal system in that it is perfect. No proof beyond a reasonable doubt is required. No hearsay is allowed. No jury, no closing arguments. The Lord looks into the soul of the accused and knows, with divine perfection, whether the person deserves Heaven or Hell. Such perfection can not be matched by any system designed by man.

It seems quite unjust that a person could kill and rape their way through life and, at the last minute, repent and go to heaven anyway. That the victim of the crime I referred to in my original post could ultimately find herself in heaven with those who killed her as she begged for mercy is unthinkable. I have also learned enough about human nature to know that the kind of people who kill and rape their way through life do not repent. Maybe one in a million truly repents of their sins before they die, be it in "Old Sparky", the lethal injection room, or at the hands of their fellow criminals.

I suspect that, for my own good, I need to learn to wish even the cruelest earthly criminal should repent and avoid Hell. I am glad to know you are nearing that point yourself. But right now, I do not see how one so cruel as the murdering rapist I originally referred to should ever deserve heaven. I can not yet bring myself to hope that, if I get to Heaven, I find Hitler, Idi Amin, Joseph Stalin, and Chairman Mao waiting for me with now-enlightened outlooks on life. They all caused so much pain, how could eternity in paradise ever be theirs? I know that no one with any true religious beliefs could do what they did, but, in theory, they could be there. Perhaps when I learn to love even them, I will have a shot at Heaven myself. I admit I am not there yet.

I am Catholic and have the concept of Purgatory to help me deal with this perceived injustice. Even that is not enough. Perhaps, if I am blessed with 72 years on earth, I will be able to deal with this as well. I can only hope.

[derheimwill]

placemarker

[strongbow]

"I am not a Christian. ( So I guess that mrsnd I am hell-bound in your book! ) "

Just as you say no Christian you know hopes for the lost to see hell neither do they deny the fact that it is true. The message is one that is intended to warn rather than condemn. Wish I had the words to convince you and others of the hope of salvation and eternal life with our Creator God. Just as much as that I also would like you to know you have a father unlike any on earth who has loved you with an everlasting love and draws you with loving kindness and not a baseball bat. BTW I just ditched my PC for an iMac and so far so good.

[Old Student]

Hope someone goes to hell? NO! Not even Arafat. Help him get to where God can determine where he belongs? Sure! Or anyone else like him.

[strongbow]

"20"And he arose and came to his father. But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him"

How can anyone who has been the recieved this kind of love from our God and Father read this verse without pause. I just read this verse again tonight and was struck by how many times it has reminded me of the totally alien nature of God's love for a lost sinner like me.

[hineybona]

Is it morally and theologically acceptable to hope anyone goes to hell ..just seems like a silly thing to be arguing

[Old Student]

10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 64:10)


You probably don't belong to my church, so you might not recognize this as scripture, but I do. This is what I have to operate on. As far as arguing the point, no, I don't think it's silly. Not everyone has had to think of such things in their lives. I was glad to find that I was not required to hate people. That doesn't mean I might not help hurry them along to meet the Lord in person, if I think they are dangeous enough, but I don't have to judge them. I do need to be ready to meet the judge, myself, and perhaps soon. Never can tell.

[Lindykim]

So far, there have been almost 3,000 hits on this thread and around 300 responses. These numbers further validate a trend back towards God and a willingness to speak openly of Him that I've been observing taking place not just on-line, but in the public arena. For all too many years, seculars have virtually controlled public discourse, and as a result, talk of God was pretty much verboten. Thankfully, their control and influence are under assault by courageous Christians who are bringing talk of God back into the public forum......right where He should be. Front and Center!!!

[Paved Paradise]

Good one. I've seen CATS.

[Little Ray]

You are of course, correct. Wish I had remembered that.

[SoothingDave]

We believe in a just and merciful God. Overly-literal readings of the Scripture tend to reduce God to something less.

So when scripture says no one shall enter the Kingdom but through Jesus, that isn't true?

Of course it's true. I just don't believe that the matter hinges on who happens to say a "sinners prayer", but rather on whose hearts God draws to Him. If God chooses to call an ignorant bushman who's never heard of Jesus. why should I complain? It is still Jesus, still the Cross that makes it possible for any of us to be given the grace of salvation.

SD

[little jeremiah]

I noticed this too. Article is not on the religion forum, and it got way over 200 responses in less than two hours.

Actually, the topic of "what happens after death" and "where will I go" are more important than anything else in the world.

(Where can you see how many hits an article has gotten if it's on the sidebar?)

[little jeremiah]

My favorite story in the Bible.