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Law Of Nature Excludes Homosexuality, Says Australian Physician
Narth ^ | August 9, 2004 | Narth

Posted on 12/07/2004 6:56:46 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist

August 9, 2004 - An Australian medical ethics expert told an audience at a marriage conference recently that homosexuals are excluding themselves from marriage and family by refusing to join the great "circle of life."

Dr. David van Gend told the audience, "By its very nature, homosexuality has excluded itself. It has stepped outside the circle of life--the timeless, endless natural circle of male and female, parent and offspring."

He notes that the origins of homosexual behavior are complex, but "whatever its origins, the outcome of homosexuality is best understood as a very complex state of confusion over sexual identity."

Van Gend cites the National Health and Social Life Survey published in 1994 in the U.S. In this survey, 8% of the 16-year-olds thought they were gay--but, "significantly, that by age 18 only 4% still thought they were gay, and by age 25, only 2 percent still thought they were gay. What that means is that most sexual confusion in school children clears away if left to iteslf. It doesn't need therapy or counseling. It is a passing phase..."

CNSnews.com has more details on this story: "Homosexuals Are Excluding Themselves From Marriage, Family." The Thomas More Centre in Brisbane has posted a speech on homosexuality from a medical perspective by Dr. van Gend on its web site: Thomas More Centre.


TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: disorderedcondition; gayagenda; geneticdeadend; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; homosexuals; narth
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1 posted on 12/07/2004 6:56:46 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Bingo!


2 posted on 12/07/2004 6:58:29 AM PST by Peace Is Coming
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I have written about "gay marriage" on this site, and have pointed out some of the same things.

It's not whether "straights and gays are equal." It's whether men and women are not merely equal, but identical substitutes. Clearly they are not identical. They're a matched set!

I don't know a way to "remedy" that with legislation. Nor do I think that we should try!


3 posted on 12/07/2004 7:00:57 AM PST by cvq3842
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
...8% of the 16-year-olds thought they were gay--but, "significantly, that by age 18 only 4% still thought they were gay, and by age 25, only 2 percent still thought they were gay.

Hmmm. And when does most "sex ed" occur in public schools? Curious, isn't it?

What that means is that most sexual confusion in school children clears away if left to iteslf. It doesn't need therapy or counseling. It is a passing phase

Not if our public schools can help it. Part of the sex-ed/homosexual agenda is to render this confusion permanent in as many of our children as possible. The public educaiton system must be destroyed.

4 posted on 12/07/2004 7:02:48 AM PST by cicero's_son
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To: All; scripter; little jeremiah; Coleus; EdReform; ItsOurTimeNow
To read the CNSnews article: http://www.cnsnews.com/Culture/archive/200408/CUL20040806.a.html

To listen to the recorded speech at the Thomas More Centre: http://www.tmc.org.au/Brisbane/talks/

It is recorded and made available for listening online. They are recorded as low bandwith mp3s.

Thought that you might want to see them. Somehow I overlooked this article.
5 posted on 12/07/2004 7:02:59 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

H2O-change the formula and it is not water anymore. Same as marriage.


6 posted on 12/07/2004 7:04:00 AM PST by loborojo (What the hell is a "Reagan Democrat"?)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Van Gend cites the National Health and Social Life Survey published in 1994 in the U.S. In this survey, 8% of the 16-year-olds thought they were gay--but, "significantly, that by age 18 only 4% still thought they were gay, and by age 25, only 2 percent still thought they were gay. What that means is that most sexual confusion in school children clears away if left to iteslf. It doesn't need therapy or counseling. It is a passing phase..."

In other words, the recruiting of these youth's does not actually clear up sexual confusion, it instead freezes development at an adolescent stage that would pass were the children not abused.

7 posted on 12/07/2004 7:04:09 AM PST by sharktrager (The masses will trade liberty for a more quiet life.)
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To: cicero's_son
Maybe being gay is a sign of sexual immaturity.
8 posted on 12/07/2004 7:05:22 AM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: EdReform; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; stage left; Yakboy; I_Love_My_Husband; ...

Homosexual Agenda Ping.

True, of course. Kids in school, if 8% are self identifying as "gay", are only doing so because they have been exposed to pro-"gay" propaganda. All the more reason for the lie that homosexuals are "born that way" to be debunked publicly, as loudly as possible, over and over again, until everyone knows the truth.

Let me and ItsOurTimeNow know if anyone wants on/off this pinglist.


9 posted on 12/07/2004 7:08:34 AM PST by little jeremiah (What would happen if everyone decided their own "right and wrong"?)
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To: escapefromboston

Why would anyone choose to be gay? To make every facet of their life more difficult and akward? I dont know where that study is from, but many studies have concluded that the percentage of gay people is closer to 10%, with many more that are at least somewhat curious. You guys are just falling for a doctor with a pro-family, religious marriage agenda, in the same way over-the-top gay groups have an agenda


10 posted on 12/07/2004 7:10:37 AM PST by gwbistheman
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To: Tax-chick

bump


11 posted on 12/07/2004 7:10:47 AM PST by Tax-chick (Benedicere cor tuo! Quomodo cogis comas tuas sic videri?)
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To: escapefromboston
Maybe being gay is a sign of sexual immaturity.

It's possible. Who knows? What I do know is that the NEA, the gay lobby, and the institutional Left have a keen interested in controlling the sexual education of our children.

This will result, predictably, in more and more sexual confusion among kids...much to the benefit of the gay community.

12 posted on 12/07/2004 7:10:53 AM PST by cicero's_son
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To: little jeremiah

Gay and sick are the same thing. I actually think it's a form of mental illness.


13 posted on 12/07/2004 7:10:53 AM PST by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys-Reagan and Bush)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Of course it does. There could never be a genentic component to it because the behavior would just make the gene die out. Therefore, a gene does not exist. Its purely behavioral. There is tons of other data to prove this, but this is big example that goes to the heart of it.


14 posted on 12/07/2004 7:10:53 AM PST by KC_Conspirator (I am poster #48)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

There are two points worth making, if only because any scientist such as this one should be well aware of them.

1) The NHSLS was not a longitudinal study. Therefore, it does not account for generational differences in homosexual identity reporting (or formation).

2) 8% and 2% is within the statistical margin of error of the relevant subgroups..

It's also worth noting that the percentages reporting identity, activity, and ongoing activity were higher for men than for women in NHSLS. It's best (more scientific) to give the respective figures for each sex rather than the combined average, IMHO.


15 posted on 12/07/2004 7:11:42 AM PST by AntiGuv ()
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Tolerance.


16 posted on 12/07/2004 7:12:51 AM PST by hawkaw
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: cicero's_son
Yes, when we have groups like "One in Teen" counseling teens using adult homosexuals, then we'll see a passing phase made permanent. The Nashville News media including Channel Four ("Four the Family") did a puff piece on One in Teen and how troubled adolescents were "helped". It seems they risk being bullied or heckled at school.

I objected in letters to the editor but was rather alone.

The guidance counselor at Hillsboro High School in Nashville was handing out brochures entitled "Maybe I'm a Lesbian" and "Maybe I'm Gay". It seems that is the way we confirm young folks in their worse tendencies.
18 posted on 12/07/2004 7:13:48 AM PST by Monterrosa-24 (Technology advances but human nature is dependably stagnant)
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To: gwbistheman

Why would anybody choose to have an affair? To make their life more difficult and awkward?

Why would anybody choose to be a prostitute? To make their life more difficult and awkward?

Why would anybody choose to be a drug addict? To make their life more difficult and awkward?

Why would anybody choose to be .... ad infinitum.


19 posted on 12/07/2004 7:14:53 AM PST by zook
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Interesting.....


20 posted on 12/07/2004 7:15:00 AM PST by wasp69 ("You're done, Rather! No more 'Divine Right of Kings'!" - Oliver "Buckhead" Cromwell (sorta)
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To: escapefromboston; All
Here's what lesbian activist Camille Paglia had to say about homosexuality being a pausing at the prepubescent stage:

Homosexuality is not 'normal'. On the contrary it is a challenge to the norm...Nature exists whether academics like it or not. And in nature, procreation is the single relentless rule. That is the norm. Our sexual bodies were designed for reproduction...No one is born gay. The idea is ridiculous...homosexuality is an adaptation, not an inborn trait."

"We should be honest enough to consider whether homosexuality may not indeed be a pausing at the prepubescent stage where children anxiously band together by gender...current gay cant insists that homosexuality is 'not a choice;' that no one would choose to be gay in a homophobic society. But there is an element of choice in all behavior, sexual or otherwise. It takes an effort to deal with the opposite sex; it is safer with your own kind. The issue is one of challenge versus comfort.
21 posted on 12/07/2004 7:15:20 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

"What that means is that most sexual confusion in school children clears away if left to iteslf.

Could this be one of MANY reasons why these freaks are stalking our school systems?

YES! Bingo


22 posted on 12/07/2004 7:15:29 AM PST by odoso (Millions for charity, but not one penny for tribute!)
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To: gwbistheman

First of all there is no identity between "over the top gay groups" and propnents of traditional morality.

Secondly people do all manner of bizarre things without reasonable cause such as whack their dongs off and pretend they are a girl. Is that as morally neutral to you as SSAD?


23 posted on 12/07/2004 7:15:52 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: yldstrk

Don't think... KNOW!


24 posted on 12/07/2004 7:16:32 AM PST by odoso (Millions for charity, but not one penny for tribute!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

"Van Gend cites the National Health and Social Life Survey published in 1994 in the U.S. In this survey, 8% of the 16-year-olds thought they were gay--but, "significantly, that by age 18 only 4% still thought they were gay, and by age 25, only 2 percent still thought they were gay. What that means is that most sexual confusion in school children clears away if left to iteslf. It doesn't need therapy or counseling. It is a passing phase..."

This is the most important point. It explains why the APA / "Ann Landers" approach to adolescent sexuality is so wrong.


25 posted on 12/07/2004 7:17:18 AM PST by zook
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To: gwbistheman
but many studies have concluded that the percentage of gay people is closer to 10%, with many more that are at least somewhat curious.

False propaganda alert.

26 posted on 12/07/2004 7:18:13 AM PST by WildTurkey
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To: escapefromboston
"Maybe being gay is a sign of sexual immaturity."

Freud's phrase for it was "psycho-sexual infantalism".

Isn't it interesting the way the faggots like to hunt among the most hormonally confused age bracket.
27 posted on 12/07/2004 7:19:19 AM PST by Monterrosa-24 (Technology advances but human nature is dependably stagnant)
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To: zook

I'm really suprised with alot of people on this forum. You cant publicly attack jews or blacks anymore without getting looked at funny, so everyone seems to be taking out their frustration now on gay people. I think y'all are just jelous of the lifestyle. No money-pit children, crying at 4am, and getting a dui with the family car at 17. No wife that turns into a cow approximately 30 minutes after she says I do. No minivan. Just oodles of expendable income, luxury cars, restaurant dinners, and vacations. But hey, at least you have sunday services and your vinyl sided house an a half acre lot.


28 posted on 12/07/2004 7:19:51 AM PST by gwbistheman
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
In this survey, 8% of the 16-year-olds thought they were gay--but, "significantly, that by age 18 only 4% still thought they were gay, and by age 25, only 2 percent still thought they were gay

Not to be morbid or insensitive, but could this statistic be an indication not of receeding homosexuality, but instead indicate the result of engaging in a particularly risk-laden lifestyle?

In other words, the percentage isn't shrinking because individuals are becoming "un-gay", its shrinking because those who were formerly gay are now dead (in a larger percentage compared to the "straight" population) and are thus not part of the survey anymore.

Perhaps to get a better count, the democratic voting model should be used, so the dead are included in the statistics.
29 posted on 12/07/2004 7:20:57 AM PST by babyface00
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To: gwbistheman

I replied to your post with some analogies that I believe refute your point. You respond with ad hominum attack. That makes *you* the bigot.


30 posted on 12/07/2004 7:21:31 AM PST by zook
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To: gwbistheman

p.s. anyone else's bedroom activities is noyb


31 posted on 12/07/2004 7:21:49 AM PST by gwbistheman
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To: Monterrosa-24
Yeah, I love the "Maybe I'm Gay" brochures.

Since they're so good at helping teens overcome their anxieties, maybe they should start handing out other brochures, like "Maybe I'm Ugly," "Maybe I'm Stupid," and "Maybe No One Really Likes Me."

32 posted on 12/07/2004 7:22:06 AM PST by cicero's_son
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To: gwbistheman
Why would anyone choose to be gay?

Why would anyone choose to be manic-depressive, or neurotic, or to be obsessive-compulsive, or....

The point being, it may not be a matter of choice, but it is also not necessarily a good thing. It's pretty obvious that homosexuality is a disordered sexuality.

Let us not pretend that it is a healthy and normal thing. Because we already know that it's not.

33 posted on 12/07/2004 7:22:11 AM PST by r9etb
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To: gwbistheman

Please cite your source or sources for the 10% figure. I believe you have fallen for a way over the top gay group's propaganda. The NIMH report I remember has the number at closer to 5%.


34 posted on 12/07/2004 7:22:25 AM PST by RebelBanker (To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!)
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To: gwbistheman
"Why would anyone choose to be gay?"

Why would anyone choose to be a pedophile?

Why would anyone choose to be an alcoholic?

Why would anyone choose to be a drug addict?

The answer is, no one chooses one day to be any of those things. It's something they enter into unconsciously, one step at a time.

35 posted on 12/07/2004 7:22:28 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: gwbistheman

It's my business if they want schools to teach my kids that it's ok for them to be "gay."


36 posted on 12/07/2004 7:22:36 AM PST by zook
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
He notes that the origins of homosexual behavior are complex, but "whatever its origins, the outcome of homosexuality is best understood as a very complex state of confusion over sexual identity."

I hope Van Gend understands how much trouble he can get into for telling the truth on this subject.

Shalom.

37 posted on 12/07/2004 7:22:47 AM PST by ArGee (After 517, the abolition of man is complete)
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To: gwbistheman

Multiple studies show that homosexuals only constitute between 2-4% of the total population:

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1034938/posts

The 10% figure was a statistical distortion started by Alfred Kinsey, and he later recanted it and stated that homosexuals make up only about 4% of the total population.


38 posted on 12/07/2004 7:22:48 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: gwbistheman

lol, false propganda? have u stepped on a college campus lately?


39 posted on 12/07/2004 7:22:57 AM PST by gwbistheman
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To: MEGoody

"The answer is, no one chooses one day to be any of those things. It's something they enter into unconsciously, one step at a time."

Come on now. That's absurd. Each step is a choice. There's nothing unconsious about it at all.


40 posted on 12/07/2004 7:23:44 AM PST by zook
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To: gwbistheman
"Why would anyone choose to be gay? To make every facet of their life more difficult and akward?

Maybe because they are mentally ill, and can't help themselves---any more than a paranoid schizophrenic or manic depressive can. Gay behavior is NOT normal.

I dont know where that study is from, but many studies have concluded that the percentage of gay people is closer to 10%, with many more that are at least somewhat curious. You guys are just falling for a doctor with a pro-family, religious marriage agenda, in the same way over-the-top gay groups have an agenda."

Just as it is the vested interest of the "over-the-top gay groups" to publish the HIGHER numbers. It isn't the "anti-gay" folks who are blocking scientific reserach into what the causes of "gayness" might be. Any "cause" other than "it's in the genes" is denigrated and, in many cases, cannot be published.

41 posted on 12/07/2004 7:23:48 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: gwbistheman
LOL. You were doing a pretty good job of sleeper-trolling until this thread.

And now...guess you just can't keep your light under a bushel forever, can you?

42 posted on 12/07/2004 7:24:29 AM PST by cicero's_son
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To: sharktrager
In other words, the recruiting of these youth's does not actually clear up sexual confusion, it instead freezes development at an adolescent stage that would pass were the children not abused.

All homosexuals are frozen in an adolescent stage of development. That's why they're so obsessed with sex they self-identify with their fetish and why they're so narcissistic they can't build a relationship with someone unless it's based on lust.

If they were true adults, they wouldn't be homosexual.

Shalom.

43 posted on 12/07/2004 7:25:07 AM PST by ArGee (After 517, the abolition of man is complete)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Like I've said since I spent any time thinking about it, Homosexuality is not sex. It is sexual perversion, like beastiality. There are two kinds of sex:

1. Sex between a male and a female.
2. Sexual perversion.

The first is the whole reason it exists, the second requires a little modification of the normal wiring of the biological machine.


44 posted on 12/07/2004 7:25:11 AM PST by RobRoy (Science is about "how." Christianity is about "why.")
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To: zook

The figures are meaningless without a longitudinal study. In other words, to survey the same 16 year olds again at 18 years old and at 25 years old. Moreover, this formulation flies in the face of many studies indicating that many homosexuals do not form the identity until the later teens and early twenties.

In other words, he is assuming that none of the 92% of 16 year olds who do not consider themselves gay will later decide that they are; that all of the 2% of 25 y.o. and the 4% of 18 y.o. who consider themselves gay were part of the 8% of 16 y.o. that considered themselves gay. That is a silly non-scientific extrapolation from the actual survey results.

In fact, the most likely explanation is nothing more than margin of error, and a probable outlier 16 year old and 25 year old sample (which is probably why he chose those ages..) If I had the published results here with me right now, I could look and see how large the sub-samples of those age groups were, but I can confidently say from memory that these results are well within the margin of error.


45 posted on 12/07/2004 7:25:20 AM PST by AntiGuv ()
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To: gwbistheman
I dont know where that study is from, but many studies have concluded that the percentage of gay people is closer to 10%, with many more that are at least somewhat curious

Sources, please?

Or are you a troll?

46 posted on 12/07/2004 7:25:53 AM PST by Terabitten (Live as a bastion of freedom and democracy in the midst of the heart of darkness.)
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To: gwbistheman
"I think y'all are just jelous of the lifestyle."

This sentence shows us the true measure of the mental 'power' behind the statement. LOL

47 posted on 12/07/2004 7:26:11 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: zook

maybe being a good parent means letting your kids do whatever makes them the happiest for the short time they are on this earth as long as it is not harmful or illegal.


48 posted on 12/07/2004 7:26:12 AM PST by gwbistheman
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To: Tragically Single
Or are you a troll?

Ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

49 posted on 12/07/2004 7:26:46 AM PST by cicero's_son
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To: gwbistheman

Problem is, is that they don't want to just keep "it" in their bedrooms. Thy are not content with that. They want their disordered behavior taught as 'ok' within the public school system. Homosexuals make up 2-4% of the total population yet constitute 60%+ of the AIDS cases and demand that our tax dollars fund treatments for it.


50 posted on 12/07/2004 7:27:27 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
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