Finally - a breakthrough for oil?

Telepolis ^ | 12/06/2004 | Craig Morris

[ckilmer]

Finally - a breakthrough for oil? Craig Morris 06.12.2004

A conversation with Brian Appel of Changing World Technologies

In 2003, Changing World Technologies made headlines in the United States and abroad with the announcement that it would be able to make oil out of just about anything. The company had been running a plant that processed seven tonnes of turkey offal per day into oil at a cost of around $15 per barrel. After a larger plant that processes 238 tonnes of turkey offal per day did not go into operation on time (due - the company says - to construction errors, not problems in the technology itself), skeptics began to wonder whether this was another fly-by-night operation. Now, at the end of 2004, all systems are go, with the plant running at 80% capacity. Craig Morris spoke with Brian Appel, the company's CEO, for Telepolis.

Mr. Appel, your company is drawing great interest both in the US and elsewhere for its promise to turn waste products into biodiesel at competitive prices. If I understood your company's spokesperson correctly, you just returned from Canada yesterday, where you met with US President George Bush and Canada's Prime Minister Paul Martin.

Brian Appel: I was invited by the Prime Minister.

So it seems that your company is the Real McCoy and not just another fly-by-night operation that is going to offer us free energy.

Brian Appel: We have put over $ 90 million into this company, and the reason other technologies are considered fly-by-night operations is that they do everything at the lab scale and are not able to take it to the next level. It takes more than just researchers; you need to look at everything from logistics to financing.

We hooked up with a big food company that was interested in using all the waste from the food chain without putting it back into animal feed. If you want to make the chain more sustainable, then you need do things like this. When we moved from our 7-ton plant in Philadelphia to the 250-ton plant in Carthage, Missouri, we had to redesign everything.

Look at the only other success story in biofuels in the US: ethanol. Some say it's not even a success story because without the subsidies it would never work. Ethanol is an additive for gasoline, while we produce a synthetic diesel. Ethanol also has a 30-year head start. Our plant in Carthage, Missouri is the first commercial one of its kind ever. And we are still tweaking certain parts of the design to enhance performance. I'm sure that the design of the next few plants to be built will be slightly different.

Where will these next plants be? Will they also process turkey offal?

Brian Appel: More than likely, they will process beef. The next plant will probably be in the British Isles. Remember that the British Isles received much of the blame for spreading BSE. There are now much tighter restrictions on the input side of the food chain there. Europe now protects its food chains, so we will get paid to "dispose of" the remains of cattle. In the US, we would not be paid because farmers can still take unused parts to a render, who will put it back into animal feed.

And then there is the output side. As you know, there is an EU directive stating that more biofuel has to be produced. In the US, the subsidies are basically for soybean and corn.

In addition, we are also able to sell a co-product as fertilizer because the United States is starting to promote organic farming. In Europe, we wouldn't get as much for this fertilizer because almost everything you do over there is organic.

Oh, we don't have that much organic here.

Brian Appel: Compared to what we do in the States, European farming is organic. Just about the whole rest of the world is farming normally compared to what we are doing. So here, I'm getting a premium because there's a movement over here to buy organic. If I go to Europe and sell this fertilizer, I have to drop my expectations to the level of normal fertilizer.

Granted, without the proper management - logistics, financing, etc. - your company would not be successful. But I think most people are interested in seeing that the technology behind it all really works. When I first heard about what you were doing a few years ago, I also rolled my eyes when I read that you wanted to speed up the process of creating oil down to 15 or 30 minutes.

Brian Appel: It takes about 15 or 20 minutes to run the process in the main reactor. But you are flattering me. We don't think our processes are that complicated.

So why didn't anyone think of this before?

Brian Appel: We had such an abundance of light crude oil. You used to be able to stick a straw in the ground in Texas - and you still can in Saudi Arabia - and light crude oil just comes bubbling out. But a lot of the light stuff has been used up, so we're dealing with more heavy oil now.

Second, we have now had 150 years to see what the impact of the use of all of this fossil oil is going to be. And since the sixties and seventies, there has been a growing environmental movement. In the US, Rachel Carson wrote Silent Spring, you had the beginnings of the Green movement in Europe, etc. So after the initial denial, we have begun to think about how to become more sustainable in the past 40 or 50 years and look for solutions for waste.

So people are just now looking for technologies like yours?

Brian Appel: Sure, but look back at some of the inventions that were made 100 years ago, especially in Germany. There was some amazing stuff. Ahead of its time.

One prime example being the fuel cell, whose basic design was developed all the way back in 1838.

Brian Appel: Right. But the time was not right. People have been using pyrolysis for some time, but that produces a very nasty by-product, and the oil companies complain about the quality of the oil produced by pyralysis and won't buy it. And electricity companies won't buy it because of the pollutants.

So we decided to do things backwards and start with the requirements. What does it take to meet the specifications for engines? Then, we basically added refinement steps after our initial stage. Refiners do the same thing: they take crude, desalt it, separate the light oil out, etc. So you can't do this in one or two steps.

You're talking about motor engines, and most people think about cars and trucks when they hear that. But your company sells most of its oil to a power company. Is there some difference between the engine that produces electricity in that plant and the basic diesel motor in a car? From what you just said, it sounds to me like you could produce for almost any specification.

Brian Appel: Power companies in the US have renewables portfolio requirements. So the utilities have to produce X amount of power from renewable sources. Over here, you go 1.75 cent tax credit per kilowatt-hour of green power. And quite simply, the company that helped us fund the pilot project simply needed more electricity in its renewables portfolio.

The main reason I'm asking about why the Biodiesel you produce is mostly used to generate electricity is because of a common misconception. Many people are calling for more solar power and wind power because we are running out of oil. But they are missing a crucial point: with wind power, we make electricity; with solar, electricity and heat. When oil starts to become scarce, we are going to mostly need motive power. That is why the potential of biomass, and hence of your company, is so crucial.

Brian Appel: We are working with the Big Three. Right now, we are working with DaimlerChrysler to develop a motor fuel. But we are also working to clean up the sector of heavy fuels, which causes most of the pollution. And there is one advantage to starting with stationary motors, like the ones used to generate electricity: you can easily see what the long-term effects of emissions are, what the wear is on seals, fuel line filters, etc.

Right now, we're facing a situation where engines will have to be tailored to these new biofuels. For instance, if you use biodiesel in a cold area, you might find that your fuel lines clog up because the fuel has congealed. People think complain that the fuel is bad, but the fuel's not bad - you just have to know how to use it. My fear is that the excitement about using biofuels might backfire. So if we use a blend in a stationary engine, we can better study what the long-term effects will be.

I have been working intensively with DESC, the Defense Energy Support Center, which is the biggest buyer of fuels in the world - that's the US military. We'd like to have the Post Office running on biofuels and get as many people as possible involved. And there are lots of other companies like us working on synthetic hydrocarbons that can serve as a transition to take us to the next level, beyond internal combustion engines, which is what I think a lot of people are shooting for.

And what is the next level, fuel cells?

Brian Appel: I don't think they're possible personally. Right now, the main supply of hydrogen comes from oil and coal, so there's a lot of hype.

Here's what we care about: the company's stated mission is to clean up this waste, produce a clean fuel, and minimized global warming because much less fuel would have to be dug up from beneath the ground. If we can do that, will have better quality of life, cleaner air, and our way of life will be more sustainable.

Mr. Appel, thanks for your time.

[aculeus]

Oil is consumed in such enormous quantities that I seriously doubt that all the animal offal produced world wide could replace more than an insignificant percent of what Americans use. Not to mention the rest of the world.

Quality is important but so is quantity.

[Old Professer]

The stuff they scrape out before they sell it to you to restuff and bake.

[CONSERVE]

However, sending landfill waste all the way to one of these refiners just wouldn't seem to be cost-effective for now.

landfill waste from ny is sent to ohio now.

[Hemingway's Ghost]

Real interesting post bump.

[cowboyway]

Mr. Appel, you claim that your processing plants can convert just about anything to oil. Does that include human bodies as well?

And if so, does your company have future plans to convert human bodies to oil?

Brian Appel: Yes, our processing plants can convert any bio material into oil, including human bodies.

And yes, our future plans do include using human bodies in our processing plants.

As you know, humans represent the most numerous species of life form on the planet and also the only species that wastes millions of acres of land to intern their bodies after they are of no use any longer. We have already been in contact with several countries that have severe population concerns and diminishing land resources. The governments of these countries are promising to supply all of our raw material needs in exchange for building plant sites in their countries.

We are also working with the governments of these countries to write legeslation that would make it unlawful to dispose of this valuable renewable resource by traditional means, such as burial or cremation.

Several locations have already been acquired and the preliminary design work has begun.

This is a win-win situation!

[ckilmer]

Oil is consumed in such enormous quantities that I seriously doubt that all the animal offal produced world wide could replace more than an insignificant percent of what Americans use. Not to mention the rest of the world.
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I've read elsewhere that Changing World Technologies is currently partnering with the auto companies to test whether their technology will work with used auto tires.

In theory the technology will work with any carbon based matter--that includes sewage garbage farm wastes, farm sewage, slaughterhouse waste, forestry cuttings. That stuff starts to add up after awhile to a lot of volume

[gesully]

Speaking of offal why not put one of these plants next to DNC Headquarters?

[ckilmer]

This is a win-win situation!
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I take it you mudwrestle with women for a living.

[Paradox]

Seems to me that this would piss off PETA real bad..

Maybe they could build a plant in Mexico City. What with all the people who live there, lots of waste to go through.. Hmmmmm, lots of, people, bodies.... Soylent Verde Oil company?

[cowboyway]

I take it you mudwrestle with women for a living

I wish!

[ckilmer]

check the statistics yourself. In 2002, the United States used an estimated 19.7 million barrels. Per day.
The articles allude to the exact engineering problem we face to make this practical as an energy production source: scaling it up. If we do work it out however, and if some organic waste streams convert at the same ratio as this pilot plant, then the numbers are interesting to look at.
A plant of this size produces 180,000 barrels per year. That works out to 493.15 barrels per day out of 200 tons each day. There are 160 million tons of wood waste per year (1998 figures) alone. That works out to 1,080,876 barrels per day if we assume the same conversion rate of 200 tons of organic matter to 493.15 barrels per day. 5.4% of our daily total oil demand from wood waste alone. Enough to affect prices at the margin, where it counts. At current rates, we will import 68% of our oil by 2025. This same reference cites DOE figures that say we currently import about 50%, or about 10 million barrels. If we put this in place today, the percentage of imports this represents rises to 10.8%.
Pulling our focus back a bit, we find that agriculture produces about 1 billion tons of waste per year. Remember, agricultural waste streams are not the only feedstock; some manufacturing waste streams are also eligible. But for the sake of back of the envelope calculations, let's assume that all eligible waste streams for TDP amounts to 1 billion tons per year. That works out to 6,755,479 barrels per day, or about 67% of daily import demand today.
Even if we project out increased demand for petroleum in the future, the potential for this technique to affect prices at the margin should not be dismissed out of hand. It is highly unlikely that we can use this technique (assuming all the engineering, business and logistical details are worked out) to supplant import demand. Fortunately, we don't need it to wholesale replace imports: if we can make it affect the marginal price, that's still a useful tool in our national assets.

[ckilmer]

kerry actually went out to the midwest and talked about biomass from midwestern states feeding america's energy future in his stump speaches. What he didn't talk about was wind farms off nantucket. nor was any mention of that in his campaign notes.

[ckilmer]

Maybe they could build a plant in Mexico City. What with all the people who live there, lots of waste to go through...
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Oil Concentrates wealth and in the hands of a few players and sucks money disproportionately out of poorer countries. Its a regressive tax. As a result oil decapitalizes countries that don't have oil and even with those countries who do have oil--the wealth tends to be concentrated in the hands of few. If oil creation can be decentralized as much as this technology promises then money/capital will tend to flow back to underfunded areas of the world. With more money comes more opportunities and there will be less demand to move from third world countries. ie fewer illegals

[AnalogReigns]

Sounds like this would fit in well with hybrid diesel cars.

Apparently diesel hybrids, which, due to American consumer preferences against (normally noisy, smelly) diesel cars, are not available in the USA, are a lot more efficient than already very efficient gasoline hybrid cars. It makes sense that a hybrid (basically an electric car with a fuel powered electric generator) would do best with a diesel engine--which do best in more constant speed applications (like trucks, construction equipment, etc.).

$14 a barrel...my my my.....

LOOK OUT ARABS!!!!!

[aculeus]

Agree that it might be useful. Disagree that it some sort of complete solution.

[elbucko]

What's turkey offal?

Offal is less than guts, like the nose, tail and ears. It is distinct from manure (though manure may also be part of this particular process). The Scottish delicacy "Haggis" is made from cooking the "offal" of sheep that is left over from slaughter, mixed with "guts", oatmeal and spices, in a sheeps' stomach with the ends tied off to form a large sausage. "Offal" is essentially the worst or inedible meat of the animal.

Historically, it has been the meat of the wretchedly poor. The Scottish poet Robert Burns elevated the social standing of the low born Haggis to a position of prominence at formal Scottish dinners by declaring it, in his poem "Address to a Haggis", to be the "Chieftain O' the puddin' race". Very American. The Haggis was born in a log cabin, as so many American Presidential candidates like to claim and rose to prominence through their own exertions.

[ModelBreaker]

Right now, he said, the Carthage facility produces petroleum at the equivalent price of $15 per barrel -- about $5 more than what it costs a small oil company to find, extract and refine petroleum the conventional way

I don't understand this. Isn't the price of a barrel of oil over $40 per barrel? Before it is refined?

[Terabitten]

Animal science ping.

[11Bush]

we don't need it to wholesale replace imports: if we can make it affect the marginal price, that's still a useful tool in our national assets

Needs to be repeated.

[paul51]

And yes, our future plans do include using human bodies in our processing plants

Let's start with the islamo types first. We can put them out of the terror business and the oil business with one squeeze