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To: swilhelm73
So why then would one of Europe's premier fascists endorse the idea? Because it was a good vehicle to advance his ideological agenda.

I wouldn't go quite as far as to call Mosley one of the premier fascists, afterall Mussolini, Hitler, and Franco all actually gained power (b.t.w. Hitler was a Nazi, which I would hold to be a very different ideology to Fascism).

Many lefties have also supported, and continue to support, the E.U. Many old-style High Tories do. Many Americans have done so. This is the point, European union provides a strong locus of power, thus the movement which controls the E.U. has a good vehicle to advance its agenda, whatever those agenda are. An aeroplane is a good vehicle for travelling between countries, and it carries all types of people - so too the E.U. is a good vehicle for promoting an ideology, and it could be used to promote any ideology.
14 posted on 12/10/2004 4:23:15 AM PST by tjwmason ("For he himself has said it, And it's greatly to his credit, That he is an Englishman!")
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To: tjwmason
Hitler was a Nazi, which I would hold to be a very different ideology to Fascism

VERY different? What are the differences that amounts to "very"? National socialism, fascism, marxism, and communism are all the same ideology with small variations.

19 posted on 12/10/2004 1:26:40 PM PST by Durus
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To: tjwmason
Mosley was the most important British fascist. As such I would call him a leading European fascist. Especially after the death of all the fascist leaders on the Continent (save Franco) after WWII.

As for NAZIism I would say it was just a fascist varient, not a seperate ideology. Most notably, fascism as a whole does not have to be anti-semitic a la NAZI Germany. Mussolini's Italy, for example, was certainly not anti-semitic, or any more then Europe as a whole, before pressure was brought to bear from NAZI Germany.

As for the modern European Left supporting the EU, I would say it is clear their are two reasons they do so...

1) To create another power to "balance" the US.

2) As a way to get around restrictions placed on them within traditional nation states.

You are indeed right that the transfer of power from nation states to the EU is a good vehicle for promoting an ideology, and it could be used to promote any ideology. save one caveat. The EU is *not* a good vehicle for promoting representative government. Every nation joining the EU already has a representative government (well, except arguably Belgium since the Vlaams Blok issue). Adding another layer of government on top of the national, at best, or superior to the national, as it will almost certainly become, can only move European society away from this current democratic paradigm.

I should point out too, that to much of the Left the EU project goes hand and hand with strengthening the UN as a governmental body. Oh, the arguments I've had with the members of the Left as to why the UN isn't a democratic body even if it "votes".
21 posted on 12/10/2004 1:56:15 PM PST by swilhelm73 (Dowd wrote that Kerry was defeated by a "jihad" of Christians...Finally – a jihad liberals oppose!)
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