Companies that ban guns put on defensive

yahoo.com ^ | Fri Dec 10,11:50 | Stephanie Armour

[FreedomCalls]

I always like to point out that in almost all cases where "firearms are banned" they really aren't for they allow policement to carry arms into those areas. You can easily challenge a gun banner with that point and sometimes their logic breaks down and smoke comes out their ears as they try to figure out their position. For if it is OK for a policeman to carry a weapon someplace why would it not be equally OK for a CCW-holder to carry a weapon there as well? I have yet to find a valid rebuttal to that question.

[Myrddin]

But how can they do so and not be discriminatory if the ban applies to CCW holders but not to policemen both of whom are equally licensed by the state to carry weapons?

Take a look at the 12XXX series of laws in California. Those laws restrict access of ordinary citizens to all manner of arms while explicitly exempting law enforcement officers from the same restrictions. It is a blatant violation of the equal protection clause in the Bill of Rights. Yet another reason this ex-Californian is a resident of Idaho.

[Ragnar704]

If a local CCW law does not grant its holder the same rights as police officers, then I think this issue boils down to one of private property.

That is, the owner of the property is authorized to determine who is allowed, what objects are allowed, and what sort of activities.

[Ragnar704]

So what are the CCW laws in Idaho like? Can you essentially bring a gun anywhere a policman would?

[angkor]

leaving their guns in the glove boxes. They only risk being caught if they ever have to use the weapon

There was a post on FR recently citing how some large corp. had run gunpowder-sniffing dogs through its parking lot. Somehow they gained entrance to each car identified by the dogs, and ended-up firing a bunch of people violating their "no firearms on premises" rule.

The company offered no prior notice that it was going to do this.

[FreedomCalls]

It's the same situation where an AR-15 is a "firehose of death" whose only purpose is the mass killing of humans when owned by a civilian, but morphs into a much-needed tool to face criminals with when possessed by a policeman.

[ashtanga]

I'll never forget traveling through Louisiana in the early Seventies. Everyone at the grocery store wore a side arm. I was impressed, and knew without doubt that there would be no robbery attempts at this business. If everyone in his right mind were allowed to carry, I wouldn't necessarily carry too, because it only takes two or three armed men in each business, or in public for that matter, to make the thugs queasy. Why the virtuecrats can't understand this is beyond me, and yes, I know that there is much nefarious doings going on behind closed doors.

[ApesForEvolution]

"It's not fair," says Honeycutt of Carmel, Ind., who has found another pizza-delivery job and continues to carry a gun. "There is a constitutional right to bear arms. If I'm going to die, I'd rather be killed defending myself."

>>>

Damn straight!

[Myrddin]

An Idaho CCW requires that you fill out a form with essentially the same questions as a Form 4473 plus attesting to having some firearms training. A set of fingerprints is submitted and a $56 check. About 90 days later, you get a call from the County Sheriff with notification of your authorization for the CCW. You run down to the station, get the signed OK and take that to the courthouse. They take a picture on the spot and issue your CCW permit. It is good for 5 years.

You may not carry a firearm into the courthouse, juvenile detention facility or a K-12 school (except that you can drive on the school grounds if the firearm is kept inside your vehicle). The CCW is required inside city limits and mining camps to carry concealed. You may carry openly without a permit anywhere except the areas previously noted.

Carrying a firearm on the grounds of a K-12 school is about the only special exception for law enforcement on duty.

[Myrddin]

The godlike capability of a law enforcement office to transform a firearm into a tool for fighting crime is always impressive to liberals. Firearms aren't safe in the hands of untrained civilians. It takes special training to handle them correctly. Of course, this flies in the face of logic when an untrained criminal picks up a gun and successfully employs it to commit a crime. I guess being a criminal confers special skills too.

[FreedomCalls]

Likewise the firearm is a killing machine in the hands of a CCW-holder who may have carried a weapon for 15 years, who practices weekly with 100s of rounds, and who may have taught an NRA gun-safety class, but the same firearm is an effective tool to fight crime in the hands of a police officer who just yesterday graduated a 6-week training course and who may only fire his mandatory 8-shots of minimum qualification rounds once a year. Amazing.

[Cacique]

BTT

[loboinok]

For example, I'm pretty sure a person with a concealed weapons permit is allowed to take his/her gun into a courtroom -- right through the metal detectors and other security screening.


No airports,Federal buildings,Hospitals,etc.

[Jaysun]

There was a post on FR recently citing how some large corp. had run gunpowder-sniffing dogs through its parking lot. Somehow they gained entrance to each car identified by the dogs, and ended-up firing a bunch of people violating their "no firearms on premises" rule.

The company offered no prior notice that it was going to do this.

This is one of those rare cases in which I'm not sure where to land. On one hand I think the owner of the company sets the rules and the employees are free to go elsewhere if they don't like them. On the other hand, If indeed the company somehow gained access to the people's vehicles without their knowledge the employee would be well within reason to shoot them and then several other people at random. (just kidding) It's a tough nut for me to crack. Privacy of the employee vs. the owner enforcing his rules - rules that he believes could cost lives if broken.

[fire_eye]

I'm a little concerned over this employee's behavior.

It sounds to me like he emptied the magazine. Shouldn't he have reserved a few rounds for a possible "backup" thug who may have been waiting in reserve?

Of course, then, I've heard that emptying the magazine into the thug is good for your defense when the leftist POS DA tries to get the grand jury to indict you; if you emptied the magazine you can claim it was a reflex fear reaction.

Just wondering out loud here...

[two23]

"If a local CCW law does not grant its holder the same rights as police officers, then I think this issue boils down to one of private property.

Sorta like: just because a person has a hunting license, it doesn't give him the right to hunt on my property without my permission.

A Concealed Carry permit has nothing to do with granting police privileges/powers to permit holders.

"That is, the owner of the property is authorized to determine who is allowed, what objects are allowed, and what sort of activities."

As long as said objects and activities are legal!

[ArmyTeach]

I'm an Alaska CCW licensee. One of our stipulations is, in the event that we are stopped -say, for speeding - we are obligated to inform the officer that we are CCW. CCW is not allowed on federal property where I work. On one occasion, as I was on my way home from work on a lovely afternoon, I spaced and found myself speeding just as a (very) young MP stopped me. I had to inform him of my CCW status, and the fine young man flipped. However, we parted friends. I'd say it's a clear assumption that CCW is not allowed anywhere a policeman can carry a gun.

[Jaysun]

Of course, then, I've heard that emptying the magazine into the thug is good for your defense when the leftist POS DA tries to get the grand jury to indict you; if you emptied the magazine you can claim it was a reflex fear reaction.

I thought the method of choice for thwarting an attack from some POS DA was to make crazy demands. Steve Martin said that if he ever robbed a bank and got cornered inside he'd tell the hostage negotiators that he wants the letter 'K' stricken from the English language. Just thought that was funny. By the way, the fact that he shot 10 rounds raised my eyebrow too. I quickly came to the conclusion that he probably just enjoys shooting.

[gogogodzilla]

Imagine how Columbine might have turned out if the schoolteachers where all carrying a concealed firearm.

I'd like to think that there would have been a much smaller tragedy.

[agitator]

here we go again...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1296398/posts?page=441#441