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Atheist philosopher acknowledges the existence of God
http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=2095 ^ | 11 December, 2004

Posted on 12/11/2004 6:24:20 AM PST by AmericanMade1776

New York (AsiaNews/CWN) – Anthony Flew, the British scholar who has been one of the world's most proponent of atheism, has conceded that scientific evidence points to the existence of God.

A prolific writer and energetic lecturer who has advanced atheist arguments throughout his long academic career, Flew made his dramatic concession at a conference in New York in which he recanted the ideology of a lifetime conceding that there is scientific evidence for the existence of God.

Flew said that the latest biological research “has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved.”

Early this year, writing in Philosophy Now magazine, Flew had indicated that his commitment to atheism was wavering. He wrote: “It has become inordinately difficult even to begin to think about constructing a naturalistic theory of the evolution of that first reproducing organism.”

Flew credited a Texas Catholic, Roy Varghese, with helping to persuade him that biological research points to the workings of an intelligent creator. Varghese, the author of The Wonder of the World, organized the May conference at which Flew first questioned his own atheistic position.

Flew—whose 1984 essay, The Presumption of Atheism, fixed his place as the leading proponent of that view—emphasises that he has not accepted Christianity. He said: “I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian, and far and away from the God of Islam.” He likened his current position to the deism of Thomas Jefferson, explaining that he is now sympathetic to the researchers who theorise about an ‘intelligent design’ in the working of creation.

(Excerpt) Read more at asianews.it ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: antonyflew; atheists; god; ssdd; universe
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Antony Flew conceded that some of his philosophical followers will be shocked by his announcement. But he said: “My whole life has been guided by the principle of Plato's Socrates: Follow the evidence, wherever it leads.”
1 posted on 12/11/2004 6:24:20 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776
Antony Flew, 81, is now singing" Nearer My God to thee"
2 posted on 12/11/2004 6:26:48 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776

Is this the guy who is in his 80s? This article doesn't say - if so, maybe the fact that death will be knocking on his door sometime in the near future convinced him to change his mind. Better late than never, I suppose.


3 posted on 12/11/2004 6:29:00 AM PST by LibSnubber (liberal democrats are domestic terrorists)
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To: AmericanMade1776

Bump!


4 posted on 12/11/2004 6:29:00 AM PST by AMDG&BVMH
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To: LibSnubber

Antony Flew, 81, now believes scientific evidence supports the theory that some sort of intelligence created the universe. But he continues to reject traditional religious ideas of God and especially the idea of salvation after death.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1371635,00.html


5 posted on 12/11/2004 6:30:28 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: LibSnubber

Yes, but you have to feel a bit sad for all of Flew's Followers, who have passed away without Faith in God.


6 posted on 12/11/2004 6:31:34 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776
I've read recent articles about Flew.

My oh my, What a Revelation! Let's all listen to him, because he's the expert.
“It has become inordinately difficult even to begin to think about constructing a naturalistic theory of the evolution of that first reproducing organism.”
It took him 70 years to figure this out? Give me a break! As if life itself is not complex enough for him to have already realized what we already knew, what people have known since the existence of man.

That there must be something greater (maybe smarter) than ourselves.
7 posted on 12/11/2004 6:32:42 AM PST by LauraleeBraswell (Support our troops.........)
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To: AmericanMade1776

I guess after a lifetime of beating his chest he's finally realized he is but a man


8 posted on 12/11/2004 6:33:18 AM PST by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: AmericanMade1776

"But he continues to reject traditional religious ideas of God and especially the idea of salvation after death."

Yeah, give him a little more time (if he has that luxury) - and watch him "come around" some more... fully accepting our own mortality can be quite sobering. I watched that very thing happen with several relatives and friends who died from cancer.


9 posted on 12/11/2004 6:34:42 AM PST by LibSnubber (liberal democrats are domestic terrorists)
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To: AmericanMade1776
He wrote a very readable intro to logical thinking some years ago that it well worth picking up. I'm a bit stunned by this article and intend to research his current position I just find this hard to swallow.
10 posted on 12/11/2004 6:37:26 AM PST by Dysart
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To: AmericanMade1776

"Yes, but you have to feel a bit sad for all of Flew's Followers, who have passed away without Faith in God."

Indeed I do! Without going too much into my personal beliefs (too early in the am for me to get flamed), I believe he'll have to "answer" (be held accountable) for all the people he led astray with his nonsense.


11 posted on 12/11/2004 6:38:18 AM PST by LibSnubber (liberal democrats are domestic terrorists)
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To: mylife

The Wonder of the World: A Journey from Modern Science to the Mind of God is an inquiry into those every day experiences and "facts of life" that are as mystifying as they are obvious and ordinary. From commonplace phenomena like language and reproduction to such enigmas as energy, life, consciousness, mind and the laws of nature. Science brings us face to face with magic and mystery. The world is nothing less than a wonderland. This book is a dialogue between an atheist scientist and a theist where we see that in contrast to the often assumed conflict between religion and science, "the womb of modern science" converged in a fascinating and historical way through the 4 greatest thinkers of the Hindu, Jewish, Christian and Moslem religions.

12 posted on 12/11/2004 6:39:26 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776

One "Flew" for the cuckoo's nest


13 posted on 12/11/2004 6:41:15 AM PST by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN (NO PRISONERS!!)
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To: AmericanMade1776
Great article, thanks, I have linked to this article in today's Christian-news-in-maine.com, so that our readers can read Freeper comments on this great news. 5th down.
14 posted on 12/11/2004 6:42:26 AM PST by newsgatherer
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To: AmericanMade1776

The "intelligent design" was created by mother nature and evolution.

Who created God? When was she born?


15 posted on 12/11/2004 6:43:35 AM PST by garyhope
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To: AmericanMade1776

Let me be the first to say..."Already posted here..."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1298548/posts


16 posted on 12/11/2004 6:45:03 AM PST by Preech1 (God, Bless America Please!)
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To: newsgatherer

I can not help but think that the book that converted a harden philospher of Atheisism for so many years, must be worth a read.


17 posted on 12/11/2004 6:45:30 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: newsgatherer

I was surprised to see this on page three of Friday's "Bangor Deadly News".


18 posted on 12/11/2004 6:46:07 AM PST by Preech1 (God, Bless America Please!)
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To: LauraleeBraswell
My oh my, What a Revelation! Let's all listen to him, because he's the expert.

Truthfully, I think that's it, in a nutshell. Only his massive ego prevented him from acknowledging the Creator long ago, and now that he's finally broken down and done it, the same ego forces him to qualify his belief in scientific jargon.

19 posted on 12/11/2004 6:49:01 AM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: AmericanMade1776

Wow, and he is not even in a foxhole or death row.


20 posted on 12/11/2004 6:50:19 AM PST by mlbford2 ("Never wrestle with a pig; you can't win, you just get filthy, and the pig loves it...")
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To: Preech1

What's the current over/under on total number of threads on this guy's "conversion"?


21 posted on 12/11/2004 6:51:26 AM PST by garbanzo (Free people will set the course of history)
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To: Preech1

Also posted here Preech http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1299039/posts.


22 posted on 12/11/2004 6:51:53 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776

To: Anthont Flew


From: God

Message: Well duh?


23 posted on 12/11/2004 6:52:20 AM PST by wildcatf4f3 (out of the sun)
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To: AmericanMade1776

bump


24 posted on 12/11/2004 6:52:30 AM PST by Truth is a Weapon (Truth, it hurts soooo good!)
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To: AmericanMade1776

ARAFAT IS DEAD!!!


25 posted on 12/11/2004 6:52:38 AM PST by mlbford2 ("Never wrestle with a pig; you can't win, you just get filthy, and the pig loves it...")
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To: garyhope

If God had a creator then we would have to ignore God and worship his creator!


26 posted on 12/11/2004 6:55:13 AM PST by mdmathis6
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To: garbanzo

Three that I know of so far...I wouldn't call it a conversion yet, but a step in the right direction...remember, the devils also believe in God and tremble...at least this atheist has the faith of a devil now. Seriously, though, for this guy to say the very fact of the universe implies a Creator is something, though I don't think he needs to compare God to Saddam Hussein.


27 posted on 12/11/2004 6:56:10 AM PST by Preech1 (God, Bless America Please!)
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To: mlbford2

Can you be sure? Someone reported seeing Arafat with Elvis in Brazil.


28 posted on 12/11/2004 6:57:19 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776

Unless he accepts Jesus as the Son of God he is still pretty much toast.


29 posted on 12/11/2004 6:58:18 AM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: wildcatf4f3

God didn't say "well duh" to me when I finally got it...he said "Welcome home"

I am not saying that Flew is a convert. He said himself that he's not jumping on the Christian bandwagon.

But before you can believe that God sent His Son to die for us...you must believe that God is real.


30 posted on 12/11/2004 6:59:29 AM PST by melbell (groovy)
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To: Preech1

By your Freeper name, I infer you are a Preacher?


31 posted on 12/11/2004 6:59:49 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: melbell

Good point, MelBell! Jesus was after all the Son of God.


32 posted on 12/11/2004 7:01:14 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: AmericanMade1776

Preecher, actually...A preacher without a degree. (grin)


33 posted on 12/11/2004 7:01:49 AM PST by Preech1 (God, Bless America Please!)
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To: Preech1

I see...My Brother is one of those too.


34 posted on 12/11/2004 7:02:50 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: mdmathis6

The Thrill of Discovery!!!


35 posted on 12/11/2004 7:08:43 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: Preech1

I'm putting my money on at least ten threads.


36 posted on 12/11/2004 7:08:49 AM PST by garbanzo (Free people will set the course of history)
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To: Dysart
He wrote a very readable intro to logical thinking some years ago that it well worth picking up. I'm a bit stunned by this article and intend to research his current position I just find this hard to swallow.

This 'conversion' appears to be a lot of wishful thinking on someone's part. I did some searching online and found a piece by him at:

http://www.thewonderoftheworld.com/Sections1-article227-page1.html

Which states:

First, a substantial case of agreement. Richard Dawkins has famously asserted that “Natural selection … the blind automatic process which Darwin has discovered … we now know is the explanation for the existence and apparently purposeful form of all life.” Against that claim I pointed out, after quoting a significant sentence from the fourteenth and final chapter of The Origin of Species, that one place where, until a satisfactory naturalistic explanation has been developed, there would appear to be room for an Argument to Design is at the first emergence of living from non-living matter. And, unless that first living matter already possessed the capacity to reproduce itself genetically, there will still be room for a second argument to Design until a satisfactory explanation is found for its acquisition of that capacity. You have in your book deployed abundant evidence indicating that it is likely to be a very long time before such naturalistic explanations are developed, if indeed there ever could be.

Our disagreements begin with any shift from the God of natural theology to the God of a Revelation. For the writings of Aristotle, which ultimately supplied Aquinas with most of his arguments for the existence of his God, contain no definition of the word ‘God’ and no concept of an omniscient and omnipotent personal Being unceasingly observing human thought and human conduct, much less a concept of a Being demanding our obedience and threatening us with an eternity of extreme torture for what He insists on perceiving as our unnecessitated and unforgiven disobedience. So the five Aristotelian arguments which Aquinas famously offered as proofs of the existence of the Christian God as surely today more appropriately to be seen as arguments for the existence of a Spinozistic or Deistic ‘God of Nature’ who or which leaves Nature and its creatures (including its human creatures) entirely to their own devices. The nearest which Aristotle ever came to the God or Gods of Christianity or Islam was when in the Nicomachean Ethics (X, viii, 8) he argued that ‘if as is generally believed, [not God but] the gods exercise some superintendence over human affairs, it is reasonable to suppose that they take pleasure in that part of man which is best and most akin to themselves, namely the intellect, and that they recompense with their favours those who esteem and honour this most because these care for the things dear to themselves and act rightly and nobly. Now it is clear that all these attributes belong most of all to the wise man. He therefore is most beloved by the gods, and, if so, he is naturally most happy.”

He does not appear to be embracing religion at all, on the contrary, he is simply pointing out the obvious, that we don't know everything about the world and until we do, we should not make up things to support our case.

37 posted on 12/11/2004 7:10:41 AM PST by killjoy (My kid is the bomb at Islam Elementary!)
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To: AmericanMade1776
I can not help but think that the book that converted a harden philospher of Atheisism for so many years, must be worth a read.

It in no way converted him. Read his review of it:

http://www.thewonderoftheworld.com/Sections1-article227-page1.html

38 posted on 12/11/2004 7:12:06 AM PST by killjoy (My kid is the bomb at Islam Elementary!)
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To: garbanzo

REVELATION 4:1-3

"AFTER THIS I LOOKED, AND, BEHOLD, A DOOR WAS OPENED IN HEAVEN: AND THE FIRST VOICE WHICH I HEARD WAS AS IT WERE OF A TRUMPET TALKING WITH ME: WHICH SAID, COME UP HITHER, AND I WILL SHOW THEE THINGS WHICH MUST BE HEREAFTER. AND IMMEDIATELY I WAS IN THE SPIRIT: AND BEHOLD, A THRONE WAS SET IN HEAVEN, AND ONE SAT ON THE THRONE. AND HE THAT SAT WAS TO LOOK UPON LIKE A JASPER AND SARDINE STONE: AND THERE WAS A RAINBOW ROUND ABOUT THE THRONE, IN SIGHT LIKE UNTO AN EMERALD".....


39 posted on 12/11/2004 7:14:20 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: killjoy
He does not appear to be embracing religion at all, on the contrary, he is simply pointing out the obvious, that we don't know everything about the world and until we do, we should not make up things to support our case.

I understand that he is not embracing any Religion, but only the existence of God. Really only the possiblity that God Exist.

40 posted on 12/11/2004 7:17:14 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: wildcatf4f3
Little insignificant Anthony Flew in the whole scope of the Universe, just a small speck of dust.....creator of nothing but mumbo jumbo..admits that there might be GOD.

How big of him!

41 posted on 12/11/2004 7:22:10 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: LibSnubber

Anthony Flew

42 posted on 12/11/2004 7:37:07 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: mdmathis6

If you read the bible, you'd know that is not possible.
God explained his essence (trinity) long before the comming of Christ.


43 posted on 12/11/2004 7:49:53 AM PST by Nuzcruizer
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To: AmericanMade1776

Looks like a great book.

Ive never understood this rift between science and spirituality


44 posted on 12/11/2004 7:50:56 AM PST by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: AmericanMade1776

"REVELATION 4:1-3"


You know the E's never ever discuss the evolution of the 'spirit'. I suppose it does not exist to them, and boy are they in for an awakening, I imagine there are going to be plenty of 'red' blushing spirits when that time occurs.


45 posted on 12/11/2004 8:00:54 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts

I wasn't aware that the existence of spirits had been scientifically substantiated, a step necessary before one attempts to discern how they evolved.


46 posted on 12/11/2004 8:08:23 AM PST by Melas
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To: Melas

"I wasn't aware that the existence of spirits had been scientifically substantiated, a step necessary before one attempts to discern how they evolved."


lol yep stuff like that happens when you look in the wrong places for 'existence'. So the E crowd will have to wait till the flesh dies for that evidence.


47 posted on 12/11/2004 8:11:41 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: AmericanMade1776
"Little insignificant Anthony Flew in the whole scope of the Universe, just a small speck of dust.....creator of nothing but mumbo jumbo..admits that there might be GOD. How big of him!"

"little insignificant Anthony Flew" as you so *lovingly* refer to him...is STILL a creation of God. No better or worse than you or me. God weeps when one of his creations turns away from Him. And He rejoices when one of his creations joins with Him. Whether you like to believe it or not, God loves all the "bad" people as much as He loves all of the "good" people. Your attitude is appalling. That "speck of dust" is one of your Father's prodigal sons and you should be PRAYING for him not talking about how much he doesn't matter.
48 posted on 12/11/2004 8:23:07 AM PST by melbell (groovy)
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To: AmericanMade1776
Welcome doubting Thomas..sheesh, what took you so long? ;)
49 posted on 12/11/2004 8:29:08 AM PST by Earthdweller (US descendant of French Protestants)
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To: melbell; AmericanMade1776
Please, tone down. Actually what AmericanMade1776 said is correct at face value. Your reply is as well correct, also at face value, except for your presuming to know the motivation and feeling of AmericanMade1776, which you really do not.

We are all "little insignificant specks of dusts" (God made Adam from dust). It is only His Love and Grace that makes us "special" to Him.

Blessings

50 posted on 12/11/2004 9:13:36 AM PST by PietroA (www.apocalypsesoon.org - Cast a light, not a shadow.)
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