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Burglars have rights too, says Attorney General (British madness)
Telegraph ^ | December 12, 2004 | Melissa Kite and Andrew Alderson

Posted on 12/11/2004 6:06:26 PM PST by Mr. Mulliner

A fresh row broke out last night about the rights of householders to fight back against intruders after the Government's most senior lawyer defended the rights of burglars.

Lord Goldsmith, the attorney-general, flew in the face of the Prime Minister's pledge to look again at the law with a view to giving homeowners more rights when he said that existing legislation was adequate.

 
Sir John Stevens
Sir John Stevens: confident of support

He said that criminals must also have the right to protection from violence, prompting David Davis, the shadow home secretary, to accuse the government of being dangerously split on the issue.

Lord Goldsmith's intervention came as Sir John Stevens, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, dismissed fears that giving homeowners greater freedom when tackling burglars would lead to an "arms race" that would put them in greater danger.

He denied that a change in the law, which currently gives homeowners the right to use "reasonable force" when tackling intruders, would encourage burglars to become more aggressive.

In an interview with The Telegraph, Sir John - who last weekend came out in favour of the Right to Fight Back campaign, launched by this newspaper two months ago - said: "I am convinced that enabling householders to use whatever force is necessary will discourage burglars.

"The fact that a would-be intruder knows a householder can respond without the fear of being prosecuted will undoubtedly deter criminal acts." Sir John, who will step down next month after five years as commissioner, said fellow police officers were confident that it would act as a deterrent.

"We are on the ground," he said. "We smell it, we see it, we hear it. We know what we are talking about."

Last week, Tony Blair told the House of Commons that he would look at strengthening the law and a Tory MP has introduced a private member's bill to do so.

Lord Goldsmith, however, appeared to take issue with the Prime Minister's pledge to act. "We must protect victims and law abiding citizens," he said.

"But we have to recognise that others have some rights as well. They don't lose all rights because they're engaged in criminal conduct."

Mr Davis said: "They certainly do lose quite a lot of rights. The Government ought to make up its mind. The Prime Minister says one thing and the Attorney General says another.

"Of course all human beings have rights, but when somebody enters your home to commit a crime they give up a large portion of them."

Some critics of a change in the law have voiced concerns that burglars will feel they have to carry guns, knives and other weapons to protect themselves from householders.

Sir John, however, did not see this as a problem. "I have confidence in the good judgement and common sense of the public in knowing how far they should go."

He said that householders should be able to use whatever force is necessary even if - in exceptional circumstances - it involved killing the intruder.

He spoke of his regret about the repercussions over the verdict on Tony Martin, the farmer who shot dead one burglar and seriously injured another during a break-in at his farm in August 1999.

There was a public outcry when Martin was found guilty at Norwich Crown Court and sentenced to life in prison. The charge and sentence were later reduced to five years for manslaughter.

Sir John did not suggest that the jury had reached the wrong verdict, but added: "The Tony Martin case is unfortunate because it has skewed the debate [on the public's right to protect their home]. But it is a fact that burglars have acted with greater confidence since the Tony Martin verdict and that has to be a matter of regret."

Lord Goldsmith, however, warned of the dangers of using the Martin case to make bad law: "There are very few cases that have given rise to this problem. Besides Tony Martin, there's only one I know about.

"It's always possible to extrapolate from one case and think that something is happening across the country when it isn't."

Mr Blair's announcement of a review of the law came three days after the Conservative Party threw its weight behind a new parliamentary attempt to win more rights for householders to protect them from burglars.

The Telegraph revealed last weekend how Patrick Mercer, the Tory MP, would introduce a Private Member's Bill to change the law in favour of homeowners.

In an article in this newspaper today, Mr Mercer described Mr Blair's promise to consult before taking action as a "classic delaying tactic".

Michael Howard, the Tory leader, yesterday praised this newspaper's campaign. "I pay tribute to the highly effective campaign run over so many months by The Sunday Telegraph. It was the first newspaper to highlight this crucial issue and its persistence has been a key factor in winning this change to the law and in forcing Tony Blair's U-turn," he said. "We now need to ensure that Patrick Mercer's bill gets through parliament. The Sunday Telegraph's continued vigilance will be crucial in ensuring this."



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: burglars; england; homedefense; uk
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This is NOT from The Onion. I repeat, this is NOT from The Onion.

Apparently if crime is deterred, more criminals will be out of work. I guess that's the logic some of these politicians have.

1 posted on 12/11/2004 6:06:26 PM PST by Mr. Mulliner
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To: Mr. Mulliner

This is what we want them to do! The more BS like this they put out, the more liberals cant say "Look at Europe!"


2 posted on 12/11/2004 6:08:50 PM PST by chudogg (www.chudogg.blogspot.com)
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To: Mr. Mulliner

Why, yes, I understand that British criminals have the right to keep and bear arms, tho' not law-abiding citizens, 'cause then they wouldn't be "law-abiding," now would they?


3 posted on 12/11/2004 6:10:39 PM PST by Map Kernow ("I hold that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing" ---Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Mr. Mulliner

unbelievable


4 posted on 12/11/2004 6:12:07 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: Mr. Mulliner

They have a right to a 7x6 plot on boot hill.


5 posted on 12/11/2004 6:12:54 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Mr. Mulliner
Some critics of a change in the law have voiced concerns that burglars will feel they have to carry guns, knives and other weapons to protect themselves from householders.

LOL... these people really treat burglars as if they're doing legal jobs like secretaries or bus drivers...

6 posted on 12/11/2004 6:14:18 PM PST by paudio (Four More Years..... Let's Use Them Wisely...)
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To: Mr. Mulliner
"Lord Goldsmith's intervention came as Sir John Stevens, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, dismissed fears that giving homeowners greater freedom when tackling burglars would lead to an "arms race" that would put them in greater danger."

Creep.

7 posted on 12/11/2004 6:14:19 PM PST by spunkets
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To: Mr. Mulliner

Yea, an arms race. Next thing you know, the burglars will be approaching houses in teams of 5 to 6, with fatigues, stocking caps, body armor, stun grenades and battering rams.

Oh, wait. It's cops who are doing that.


8 posted on 12/11/2004 6:15:31 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Mr. Mulliner
What a bunch of effete weenies. If you break into Viking's castle, you have the right to eat hot lead.


9 posted on 12/11/2004 6:15:42 PM PST by Viking2002 (Taglines? Vikings don't need no steenkin' taglines..............)
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To: Mr. Mulliner
"I am convinced that enabling householders to use whatever force is necessary will discourage burglars. "The fact that a would-be intruder knows a householder can respond without the fear of being prosecuted will undoubtedly deter criminal acts."

Well now ... There's a flash of the blindingly obvious. Kudos to Sir John Stevens, for having the guts to rub the idiot politicos' noses in it.

10 posted on 12/11/2004 6:15:46 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: jwalsh07

They have the right to absorb small, high velocity particles of copper jacketed lead.


11 posted on 12/11/2004 6:17:12 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Mr. Mulliner
They don't lose all rights because they're engaged in criminal conduct

Perfect statement to describe Western Civilization in decline. Look no farther than Guantanamo, than Scott Peterson and O.J. Simpson, than all those SLA "activists and Charles Manson murderers earning Ph.D.'s in prison on your dime, waitin g to be released and contracted to lecture university students and write bestsellers.

12 posted on 12/11/2004 6:18:43 PM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: paudio
LOL... these people really treat burglars as if they're doing legal jobs like secretaries or bus drivers...

British burglars are merely redistributing income more efficiently than the socialist government, and in a highly targeted fashion.

The principle, that stealing is OK if you want the money, is well-established UK public policy.

14 posted on 12/11/2004 6:20:43 PM PST by Jim Noble (FR Iraq policy debate begins 11/3/04. Pass the word.)
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To: Mr. Mulliner

THese socialists screw folks far more than the kings and lords did in the old days.


15 posted on 12/11/2004 6:22:37 PM PST by spunkets
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To: Mr. Mulliner

It would be a shame if this mans home address was to be found and posted on the interent. iI hear that goverment agents like this get paid a lot of money and in england especially they invest a lot in precios antiques that could by drug addicts lots and lots of drugs if they can only find the houses they are stored in


16 posted on 12/11/2004 6:24:35 PM PST by freepatriot32 (http://chonlalonde.blogspot.com)
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To: Mr. Mulliner
"But we have to recognise that others have some rights as well. They don't lose all rights because they're engaged in criminal conduct."

If caught in my house, you will have only the right to bleed.

I hope to hell the Telegraph's pressure is enough to force a rational solution to this.

SO9

17 posted on 12/11/2004 6:27:55 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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To: Mr. Mulliner

If the law of the land is not with the victem, it is with the criminal. The law of the land is therefore contemptable, for it gives the edge to the proffesional criminals and handicaps these who wish to merely be left alone to go their law abiding, non-violent and tax-paying ways.

Is that asking too damn much!!!!!


18 posted on 12/11/2004 6:30:32 PM PST by F.J. Mitchell (We would love to get along with liberals, but not by placating their spoiled bratish tantrum fits.)
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To: Mr. Mulliner; Killing Time
"But we have to recognise that others have some rights as well. They don't lose all rights because they're engaged in criminal conduct."

At this rate it should be a legalized profession in about 15 years.

19 posted on 12/11/2004 6:33:42 PM PST by perfect stranger (Godel, Escher and Bach. The Eternal Golden Braid)
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To: paudio

I think the Socialists needs to help them form unions. They can have a union for burglars with Fagan in charge and another union for murderes with Bill Sykes in charge.


20 posted on 12/11/2004 6:34:15 PM PST by vbmoneyspender
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