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Does the world need the UN?
Belgium Post ^ | 12-17-2004 | Arseny Oganesyan

Posted on 12/17/2004 12:45:38 PM PST by processing please hold

The trouble is that the world is divided over the future of the UN, which is nothing more than a burden for the neo-conservative team of US President George Bush. It must be sustained, but it is virtually useless when urgent and resolute actions are needed, as in the case of Yugoslavia and Iraq. Why should the world's sole superpower confine itself to acting within the international legal framework stipulated by the UN Charter, if it can attain its goals with the help of regional blocs (NATO) or by creating ad hoc international coalitions?

(Excerpt) Read more at en.rian.ru ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: neoconservative; russia; un
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1 posted on 12/17/2004 12:45:39 PM PST by processing please hold
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To: pbrown

The idea of the organization was laudable, but implementation is a disaster. It's a West-hating marxist paper tiger. We should kick the present version out of the States, and use the buildings for office space.


3 posted on 12/17/2004 12:48:43 PM PST by theDentist (Jerry Springer: PBS for White Trash)
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To: pbrown

NO


4 posted on 12/17/2004 12:50:36 PM PST by The SISU kid (I'm the swizzle stick in the cocktail of life)
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To: pbrown
Why should the world's sole superpower confine itself to acting within the international legal framework stipulated by the UN Charter?

It probably would not be so bad if the UN confined itself to acting within the international framework stipulated by the UN Charter.

Sudan? Oil for food? Rwanda? Sex scandals? Kids on the take? Taking away NYC park land? All taht takes a back seat to sniffling on how cheep the USA is and how superior they are.

5 posted on 12/17/2004 12:52:09 PM PST by pikachu (The REAL script)
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To: pbrown

The world has been made darker by the UN...nice idea, too many dictators and crooks...


6 posted on 12/17/2004 12:52:37 PM PST by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: All

Apparently Russia thinks the UN is the counter-balance to the U.S.


7 posted on 12/17/2004 12:54:28 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown
Per title

No

Nein

Nyet

Nada

8 posted on 12/17/2004 12:55:03 PM PST by kahoutek
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To: Pookyhead

I have been against the U.N. since the fiasco at the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom. They are a thorn which needs to be removed from our side.


9 posted on 12/17/2004 12:56:23 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pikachu

"It probably would not be so bad if the UN confined itself to acting within the international framework stipulated by the UN Charter"

I remember when the UN was started. It was wrong then and worse now.

It was started by communists in the US, it's charter was written by communists, for communists for the sole purpose of destroying the west.

Whatever you young people were taught in school is nothing but lies!

The UN should be totally destroyed and never to raise it's ugly head again!


10 posted on 12/17/2004 12:57:14 PM PST by dalereed
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To: theDentist

The one single goal that the UN has, from what I can tell is how to bring down the U.S.


11 posted on 12/17/2004 12:57:52 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown
Slam dunk!

Answer: It doesn't!

12 posted on 12/17/2004 1:00:20 PM PST by Publius6961 (The most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.)
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To: pbrown
No -- WE do not need the U.N. The U.N. NEEDS US (U.S)

Kick them out, use the money we were going to spend on the U.N. and convert the building into a homeless shelter and a day care center proper.

That's all it ever was anyway.
13 posted on 12/17/2004 1:00:51 PM PST by four more in O 4 (God Bless America, and Merry CHRIST-mas to ALL!)
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To: pikachu

They have out lived their usefulness. It is time for them to pack up and go elsewhere.


14 posted on 12/17/2004 1:03:08 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

I agree. The world has turned into a more dangerous place. The UN should soon find itself in the dust-bin of history.


15 posted on 12/17/2004 1:04:55 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Publius6961

Agreed. Their time has passed.


16 posted on 12/17/2004 1:06:17 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: four more in O 4

If we cut the purse strings....the UN will collapse. I say it is time we do just that.


17 posted on 12/17/2004 1:07:43 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: dalereed
You are right on every point you raised.

The UN has become a back-biting eating machine that lives on American tax dollars. It is time to foreclose on that organization.

18 posted on 12/17/2004 1:11:04 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

The U.S. certainly doesn't. They've only made everything they've touched worse.


19 posted on 12/17/2004 1:11:11 PM PST by susiek
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To: dalereed
The one and only achievement of the United nations was eradicating Small Pox... Unfortunately their position on DDT has killed 10 times more than small pox ever could. Hey, Ho, UN's gotta go. Hey, Ho, UN's gotta go.
20 posted on 12/17/2004 1:13:00 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (Free the Fallujah one)
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To: pbrown
The UN is useless while the Lowest Common Denominator of Nations are in control of comittees. That is the PC application to international bodies. Useless, inefficient, and wasteful to both natural and human resources. They sit in a nice piece of river front property and just spend money and create difficulties that they cannot solve without Divine intervention. And about 12 countries defied the rules of Man while they are shoving paper between offices and coffee breaks.

Ship them to France and send them not a single penny more.

21 posted on 12/17/2004 1:15:43 PM PST by BobS
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To: susiek

Look at the UN's role or lack thereof in Iraq. One bomb, and they scurry off like the rats they are.


22 posted on 12/17/2004 1:21:45 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

No.


23 posted on 12/17/2004 1:23:06 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: pbrown

If we want to achieve a harmonius, one-world government, that cares for all people and their unique cultures equally and distributes wealth fairly as it is needed to bring about the end of hunger, genocide, homophobia, gun crime, Aids and mean people, then yes.

Kumbaya


24 posted on 12/17/2004 1:26:02 PM PST by dljordan
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To: BobS
For other Western styled democracies to still support the UN is beyond belief. How can they, in good conscience still show support for such a useless, corrupt organization astounds me.
25 posted on 12/17/2004 1:26:10 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: dljordan
I love the subtle nuisances of sarcasm.
26 posted on 12/17/2004 1:28:03 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

"I have been against the U.N. since the fiasco at the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom. They are a thorn which needs to be removed from our side."

The U.N. has been screwing things up for much, much longer than just since the beginning of Iraqi Freedom. It has been a very, very long time since the U.N. was anything but one big mass of corruption tempered only by silliness.


27 posted on 12/17/2004 1:28:54 PM PST by susiek
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To: susiek
That is when I made a conscious decision to wash my hands of them completely and forever.

I watched as things began to fall apart where the UN was concerned. I was one of those where hope springs eternal. I found out with the UN....there is no hope.

28 posted on 12/17/2004 1:33:01 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

If the UN does collapse, I’ll start buying a lot more shares of Boeing, Lockheed Martin, GE, BAE and a host of other military equipment stocks.


29 posted on 12/17/2004 1:41:43 PM PST by RetNav96
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To: pbrown
Why should the world's sole superpower confine itself to acting within the international legal framework stipulated by the UN Charter, if it can attain its goals with the help of regional blocs (NATO) or by creating ad hoc international coalitions?

While that is a perfectly legitimate question, it misrepresents what actually happened in Iraq. The members of the UN (i.e. France) got cold feet only after it became evident the Bush had every intention of enforcing the resolutions already passed within that international legal framework. Were these not intended to be enforced they shouldn't have been passed - passing empty rhetoric and declaring the problem solved is precisely what is wrong with the UN.

30 posted on 12/17/2004 1:54:03 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: RetNav96
I'm sure people are doing that now with the UN in existence. What war have they prevented? In my opinion, the UN is only good for handing out food parcels and they don't do that very well. Look at the starving people around the world.

They are a farce, pure and simple. The leaders at the top are lining their pockets with taxpayers money and telling the rest of the world to go to Hades.

31 posted on 12/17/2004 1:55:00 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Billthedrill
Bush rocked the boat by actually enforcing their resolutions. I think they were caught off-guard by someone who would interpet a resolution of 'serious consequences' as something worth more than a scrape of paper it was written on. You can bet they won't make that mistake in the future....if they have a future that is.
32 posted on 12/17/2004 2:00:09 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: All
The invasion of Iraq and the Abu Ghraib scandal led to the defeat of the US in the battle "for the minds and hearts" of the global public. Several shops in Ankara, the capital of a NATO member state, have "Americans Not Allowed" signs in their windows above photographs of US servicemen torturing Abu Ghraib inmates. When Washington criticizes the UN for its failure to settle the Iraqi problem, it disregards the fact that this helped the organization to keep face, in particular, in the Arab world. But the actions of the US administration had achieved the opposite: the potentialof American "soft power" has decreased everywhere in the world. But king-of-the-hill America does not seem to notice this.

This is the part that angers me the most about the article. Where is the condemnation of Saddam murdering hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's? Or the million that was killed in the Iran war?

They focus on panties on the heads of prisoners.

33 posted on 12/17/2004 2:08:09 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

No, but the UN needs the world. Where else would they get their money?


34 posted on 12/17/2004 2:10:22 PM PST by daddyOwe
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To: pbrown

I buy those stocks now.
UN has provided a means of preventing many piss ant countries from getting hardware. We have used it often in that capacity.
UN gone; sanctions gone, inspections gone... free market arms sales. I wouldn't mind it; I’d buy some European, Israeli and Russian arms stocks too.


35 posted on 12/17/2004 2:13:01 PM PST by RetNav96
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To: daddyOwe
Exactly. America needs to come up with an alternative to the UN. An organization that truly works for the world. Where each member state comes from a democraticaly elected government. Fellow members will be able to scrutinize all future members and vote Yea or Nay on their admittance.

The UN is a lost cause.

36 posted on 12/17/2004 2:16:54 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: RetNav96
Sanctions gone...inspections gone. Are you kidding me?

Is the UN in Iran? They have given them a wink and a nod. Have they stopped their proliferation of nuclear material? Has the UN stopped the North Koreans from acquiring nuclear weapons?

The UN is a joke. They have accomplished nothing except lining their pockets.

37 posted on 12/17/2004 2:21:47 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown
In theory there needs to be a counter balance to the USA.

In my view, however, even with its many flaws the USA is more moral than the UN. The USA knows things like Abu Graib were bad. The USA has multiple vocal oppositions, such as the other party and the press.

The UN can shrug off any scandal no one cares. No opposition, no press watch dog, no oversight, no competition...

And so, without moral credibility, without armed forces, without economic power- it has not more effectiveness than what the USA gives to it.

Not a great situation.
38 posted on 12/17/2004 2:22:01 PM PST by wizard61
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To: pbrown

definently NO!


39 posted on 12/17/2004 2:22:15 PM PST by Paul_Denton
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To: pbrown

No, if for no other reason then Alger Hiss was involved in its creation.


40 posted on 12/17/2004 2:23:43 PM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: wizard61

The U.S.A. should stop giving. Plain and simple. Let them crumble and be done with it.


41 posted on 12/17/2004 2:32:55 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Paul_Denton

I agree 100%.


42 posted on 12/17/2004 2:34:32 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten

I would spit at the mention of Alger Hiss, but my mother taught me ladies don't spit.....but, I'm not a lady today....there, I feel much better now.


43 posted on 12/17/2004 2:36:47 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

After the Cold War the only purpose of the UN is to serve as a counterbalance to US hegemony.


44 posted on 12/17/2004 2:38:02 PM PST by expatguy (Fallujah Delenda Est!!)
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To: pbrown

Not sure why you're disagreeing with me. I wouldn't mind seeing the UN disappear and the only tangible benefit I could see in it for me is a possible big bump in arms sales. Other than that I could give a rats behind about the UN.


45 posted on 12/17/2004 2:39:47 PM PST by RetNav96
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To: The SISU kid
Not NO, but...

HELL NO !!


46 posted on 12/17/2004 2:39:52 PM PST by unixfox (Close the borders, problems solved!)
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To: wizard61
"In theory there needs to be a counter balance to the USA".

What an odd thing to say. What has America done that you would say she needs a counter balance?

What countries have we taken over and claimed as American?

Where has America erred in your opinion that a counter balance was in order?

47 posted on 12/17/2004 2:41:33 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: unixfox

Could you say that a little louder please. I don't think the people in the next parish of me heard it...LOLOLOL


48 posted on 12/17/2004 2:43:13 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: RetNav96
I'm just saying that there are arms sales going on now. Look at Iraq, or Syria, or Iran, take your pick. It's happening now and the UN is ignoring anything that could put a ripple in their money grabbing schemes.

The UN is not stopping gun-running. I would like to bet they actually know what going on and couldn't care less.

49 posted on 12/17/2004 2:47:07 PM PST by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: pbrown

http://www.getusout.org/resources/fearful_master/chap09.htm

In 1950 the State Department issued a volume entitled Postwar Foreign Policy Preparation, 1939-45. It described in detail the policies and documents leading up to the creation of the United Nations and named the men who shaped these policies. This and similar official records reveal that the following men were key government figures in UN planning within the U.S. State Department and Treasury Department: Alger Hiss, Harry Dexter White, Virginius Frank Coe, Dean Acheson, Noel Field, Laurence Duggan, Henry Julian Wadleigh, John Carter Vincent, David Weintraub, Nathan Gregory Silvermaster, Harold Glasser, Victor Perlo, Irving Kaplan, Solomon Adler, Abraham George Silverman, William L. Ullman and William H. Taylor. With the single exception of Dean Acheson, all of these men have since been identified in sworn testimony as secret Communist agents!

It is truly fantastic, but here is the record:

Alger Hiss: In 1950 Hiss was convicted and sent to prison for perjury involving statements relating to his Communist activities. Since the second Hiss trial evidence has continued to be amassed through other congressional investigations that is even more incriminating than that used for his conviction. As it was, the FBI had solid evidence of Hiss's Communist activities as far back as 1939 and had even issued numerous security reports to the justice Department and executive branch dealing with this fact.1 In addition, a parade of former Communists testified that they personally had known and worked with Alger Hiss as a fellow member of the party.

It is worth noting that Alger Hiss was very influential with the leaders of the Institute of Pacific Relations, which a Senate committee found to be infiltrated at the top by Communists. Hiss was one of the trustees of the IPR and was very active in its affairs.2

Mr. J. Anthony Panuch, who had been assigned the task of supervising the security aspects of the transfer of large numbers of personnel from various war agencies to the State Department in the fall of 1945, testified that as a security officer he had access to conclusive information on Hiss's Communist activity; but when he tried to do something about it, it was he, not Hiss, who was dismissed.3

In 1944 Hiss became acting director of the Office of Special Political Affairs which had charge of all postwar planning, most of which directly involved the creation of the United Nations; and in March 1945, in spite of all the FBI reports and other adverse security information circulating among the top echelons of government, he was promoted to director of that office.

It is more than a little ironic that Alger Hiss was the man who traveled with FDR to Yalta as his State Department advisor. It was at the Yalta meeting that the decision was made to give the Soviets three votes in the General Assembly to one for the United States. Giving votes to the Russians for the Ukrainian SSR and Byelorussia SSR made as much sense as giving extra votes to the United States for Texas and California. At any rate, even if Roosevelt had been inclined to protest this absurd agreement, he was up against the demands of Joe Stalin and the advice of Alger Hiss.

The Dumbarton Oaks Conference was held in 1944 to determine the future form that the United Nations would take. It was an extremely important meeting since most of the really critical decisions were made there. This meeting was so hush-hush that the public and even the press were excluded from the proceedings. Alger Hiss was the executive secretary of this conference.

Hiss's role at the San Francisco conference, where the United Nations was finally taken off the drawing board and put on the assembly line, is better known to most Americans. He was the chief planner and executive of the entire affair. He organized the American delegation and was the acting secretary-general. Visitor passes bore his signature. According to the April 16, 1945, issue of Time magazine:

The Secretary-General for the San Francisco Conference was named at Yalta but announced only last week-- lanky, Harvard trained Alger Hiss, one of the State Department's brighter young men. Alger Hiss was one of the Harvard Law School students whose records earned them the favor of Professor (now justice) Felix Frankfurter and a year as secretary to the late justice Oliver Wendell Holmes. He was drafted from a New York law firm by the New Deal in 1933, joined the State Department in 1936, accompanied President Roosevelt to Yalta. -At San Francisco, he and his Secretariat of 300 (mostly Americans) will have the drudging, thankless clerk's job of copying, translating and publishing, running the thousands of paper-clip and pencil chores of an international meeting. But Alger Hiss will be an important figure there. As secretary-general, managing the agenda, he will have a lot to say behind the scenes about who gets the breaks.4

Hiss was not only the acting secretary-general at the San Francisco conference, but also served on the steering and executive committees which were charged with the responsibility of actually writing the new Charter.5 In such a position, he undoubted wielded a tremendous amount of influence on the drafting of the Charter itself. He did not do it single-handedly, however, as some critics of the United Nations have claimed. For instance, Andrei Gromyko was asked during a press conference in 1958 whether he considered it a violation of the Charter for a country to send its forces into the territory of another. He replied: "Believe me, I sit here as one who helped to draft the UN Charter, and I had a distinct part in drafting this part of the Charter with my own hands."6

At the conclusion of the conference Alger Hiss personally carried the freshly written document back to Washington by plane for Senate ratification. The Charter traveled in a black water-tight box with a parachute. The master planners were taking no chances.

Knowing that Alger Hiss was a Soviet agent, the FBI had prepared an extensive surveillance of his activities during the San Francisco conference. Shortly after Hiss learned of this through his contacts in the Justice Department, however, the FBI received orders from the top to cancel its plans.7

An entire book could be written on the single subject of Alger Hiss and his influence over the United Nations during its formative phase. But, as important as he was, he was only one man. Had Hiss never been born, or had he spent his entire life in a monastery, the UN would still be what it is today, for Hiss was not alone.

Harry Dexter White: White was the assistant secretary of the United States Treasury Department under Henry Morgenthau. As such, he had complete control over our foreign policy dealing with treasury matters. The following Treasury Department directive indicates the influence that White bad:

On and after this date [December 15, 1941], Mr. Harry D. White, assistant to the secretary, will assume full responsibility for all matters with which the Treasury Department has to deal having a bearing on foreign relations. Mr. White will act as liaison between the Treasury Department and the State Department, will serve in the capacity of advisor to the secretary on all treasury foreign affairs matters, and will assume responsibility for the management and operation of the stabilization fund without change in existing procedures. Mr. White will report directly to the secretary.8

Elizabeth Bentley testified that while she was a Communist supervising the liaison between various espionage rings in Washington, Harry Dexter White was a member of one of these groups. It was known as the Silvermaster cell. She also revealed that White, acting on instructions from Moscow, pushed hard for what was later known as the Morgenthau plan and which was designed to destroy Germany's industry after the war so Germany could never again pose a serious obstacle to the Soviet plans for future expansion in Europe.9

J. Edgar Hoover testified before a Senate investigating committee that "from November 8, 1945, until June 24, 1946, seven communications went to the White House bearing on espionage activities wherein Harry D. White's name was specifically mentioned."10 In spite of all this, White stayed on in his government post, as did Alger Hiss. White was even sent to the San Francisco conference to represent the Treasury Department. He served as chairman of the important committee that established the United Nations multi-billion-dollar International Monetary Fund. Only a few months after being thoroughly exposed as a secret agent, White was appointed to the post of executive secretary of this International Monetary Fund which he helped create with large injections of United States tax money. When he turned in his resignation to the Treasury Department to accept this new position, President Truman sent him the following letter:11

Dear Mr. White:

I accept with regret your resignation as assistant secretary of the Treasury. My regret is lessened, however, in the knowledge that you leave the treasury only to assume new duties for the government in the field on international economics as the U.S. executive director of the International Monetary Fund. In that position, you will be able to carry forward the work you so ably began at Bretton Woods and you will have increased opportunity for the exercise of your wide knowledge and expertness in a field that is of utmost importance to world peace and security. I am confident that in your new position you will add distinction to your already distinguished career with the Treasury.

Very sincerely yours,
(signed) Harry S. Truman


50 posted on 12/17/2004 2:47:35 PM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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