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State Sees Instant Results in Electronic Gun Checks
NY Times ^ | December 25, 2004 | FOX BUTTERFIELD

Posted on 12/24/2004 11:19:51 PM PST by neverdem

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With the reality of restraining orders being issued on nothing more than a spiteful accusation, this is nothing to be merry about.
1 posted on 12/24/2004 11:19:52 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

How the hell can they take someone's weapons with as little as an unproven restraining order?

I am so glad I will never live in Masschusetts...


2 posted on 12/24/2004 11:21:48 PM PST by MikefromOhio (16 days until I can leave Iraq and stop selling hot dogs in Baghdad....and boycotting boycotts)
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To: Travis McGee; Joe Brower; El Gato; Squantos; bang_list; All
BANG, otherwise a Merry Christmas to you and your families!
3 posted on 12/24/2004 11:24:27 PM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem
RED DAWN
4 posted on 12/24/2004 11:28:40 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (I went to school for 20 years, well I went to the 10th grade twice.)
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To: neverdem

Yeah, aren't they just chirping happily about how "convenient" it all is.

You just wait until they - or their grandchildren - have to submit fingerprints to buy drain cleaner, to make sure that they're not on a Government watch list for potential suicides, based on their on-line medical records. They won't be so chirpy and upbeat.

(Hopefully I'm old enough that won't live long enough to see it.)


5 posted on 12/24/2004 11:31:14 PM PST by fire_eye (Socialism is the opiate of academia.)
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To: neverdem

My God that's out of control. Terrifying to the extreme.


6 posted on 12/24/2004 11:31:51 PM PST by Kornev
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To: neverdem

'On Wednesday, for example, moments after a court placed a woman's husband under a restraining order, a notice about the order popped up on a new computer terminal at the police station here. Given that information, the Woburn police went to the man's house and confiscated his guns, all 13 of them'

This is an abuse of his second amendment rights. Restraining orders are not a convicted offense. It's akin to stripping someone of a right because someone else thinks they ought to lose it.


7 posted on 12/24/2004 11:37:34 PM PST by Bogey78O ("Kill The Tartars on the night of the 15th of the 8th moon")
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To: neverdem
These no contact orders for people accused of domestic battery are issued right away, long before a trial. During this period there is still technically a presumption of innocence. These people are being deprived of their right to bear arms without due process of law. I can't imagine how this passes constitutional muster.
8 posted on 12/24/2004 11:41:21 PM PST by TKDietz
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To: neverdem

To summarize this article.

"The new intrusive and unconstitutional system we've developed is quicker than the totally retarded and illogical system we've used in the past."

This is like someone telling me that rather than taking a sledgehammer to their brain they took a screwdriver. And since it hurt so much less for them then we all ought to be stabbed in the head by a screwdriver.

Sheesh, someone needs to go tell the Massachusettes AG to go demand 5 dollars from Bernie Getz


9 posted on 12/24/2004 11:43:46 PM PST by Bogey78O ("Kill The Tartars on the night of the 15th of the 8th moon")
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To: TKDietz
As far as I know, the second amendment is UNCONDITIONAL, as long as a person is not in jail the right must not be infringed
10 posted on 12/24/2004 11:45:01 PM PST by btcusn (Giving up the right to arms is a mistake a free people get to make only once.)
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To: TKDietz

It's only legal because the gov't says so. If we don't get our way in these next four years in the courts then we have failed.


11 posted on 12/24/2004 11:45:59 PM PST by Bogey78O ("Kill The Tartars on the night of the 15th of the 8th moon")
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To: neverdem
While quietly behind the scene the American Left continues to try and make every criminal offense a Felony to push their form of gun control.
While they also continue to drag many misdemeanors into a reason to gun grab...
Won't be long if something isn't done and YOUR GONNA LOSE YOUR GUNS FOR A SPEEDING TICKET.....
12 posted on 12/24/2004 11:47:34 PM PST by spartan68
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
RED DAWN

More like unintended concenquences.

13 posted on 12/24/2004 11:48:51 PM PST by bad company (Just cause you're paranoid doesn't mean someone's not out to get you.)
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To: Bogey78O
This is an abuse of his second amendment rights. Restraining orders are not a convicted offense. It's akin to stripping someone of a right because someone else thinks they ought to lose it.

Put another way, let's say a Police Chief, Mayor, Governor, etc., wanted to finally, absolutely, rid themselves of all those pesky 2nd Ammendment advocates. They take a writ to friendly Left-wing judge, request a "restraining order" claiming some threat against the government official by each and every gun owner. Then these gun owners have two options, i.e. turn in their guns voluntarily, or have them confiscated, and possibly, be prosecuted for illegal gun ownership (i.e. due to the restraining order).

Extreme thinking, a bit, perhaps, but if you follow the logic of the laws of Massacusetts, California, and other states, this logical progression of events can be possible. Possible, of course, because those gun owners have no defined rights to bear arms in those states, i.e. they are "priviledges" plain and simple. The state and local laws are written and enforced with that clear assumption in mind. Regardless of what the U.S. Constitution says, and what you feel about it, you will lose either your guns or your liberty or both, whenever a government official gets around to your number.

The option of citizens in these states is to become an outlaw (again, losing their right to bear arms due to a gun-related felony, i.e. owning guns with a restaining order or other transparent legal device applied against them), meekly give up their rights under the U.S. Constitution, or raise $millions and spend years in court to fight the leftists, who have the power and purse of the state behind them.

Hopeless situation. I know. I live in California, have a registered "assault" weapon, and am undoubtly in violation of one of some 20,000 CA gun laws in one way or another.

SFS

14 posted on 12/24/2004 11:51:36 PM PST by Steel and Fire and Stone
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To: TKDietz; Bogey780; El Gato; Squantos
I can't imagine how this passes constitutional muster.

Wasn't that the basis of Emerson case in Texas, but the US Supreme Court sent back to the Texas District court for clarification of some sort?

15 posted on 12/24/2004 11:54:13 PM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: MikeinIraq
How the hell can they take someone's weapons with as little as an unproven restraining order?

Mike, that's a Federal law -- the Lautenberg Amendment -- if you have an accusation of domestic abuse, you lose gun rights. Forever.

It's hilarious that they use Woburn, Mass., as an example. At least two Woburn PD officers have beaten their wives or ex-wives, and then the other cops have leaned on the wife to withdraw her complaint. This probably happens everywhere, but I know about it in that one city.

The reason they do this is that even a police officer loses his right to carry or even touch a firearm, and therefore his job. So, the boys tune up the women, it happens, you wouldn't want them to lose their pensions....? They're there to enforce the laws, not obey them.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

16 posted on 12/24/2004 11:57:50 PM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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To: neverdem
"Given that information, the Woburn police went to the man's house and confiscated his guns, all 13 of them."

What the . . .?
17 posted on 12/25/2004 12:07:46 AM PST by Max Combined
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To: neverdem
Given that information, the Woburn police went to the man's house and confiscated his guns, all 13 of them.

Wow. Convenient way for the cops to get their throwdowns.
I will definitely steer clear of Massachusetts.

18 posted on 12/25/2004 12:15:08 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Criminal Number 18F
The Lautenberg Amendment also applies to soldiers. Yes, if you had a restraining order in 1989 in Kentucky, you cannot use a weapon to defend yourself in Iraq. Of course, Frank Lautenberg is anti-military and anti-defense in general.

Some Army Policy on soldiers with this disability (their MOS gets an "L9" code, which I guess means rubber gun squad).

In 2001, the GOA Fought the Ban. The NRA does not appear to have opposed it. The Lautenberg Amendment was attached to legislation that NRA lobbyists wanted, so they let it slide.

I've never raised a hand to a woman, nor even been falsely accused (I am told that lawyers solicit these accusations from their clients as a routine divorce tactic, so the "false charge" is by no means rare), so I don't have a dog in this fight, except that I'm appalled by the way this law plays out in the field.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

19 posted on 12/25/2004 12:19:32 AM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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To: neverdem
I wasn't familiar with that case, but I Googled an article on it and from what I read it looks the the issues and arguments were the same. The 5th Circuit apparently found that the law violates the 2nd (right to bear arms) and 5th (due process) Amendments. I haven't read the case though so I don't know any of the particulars or if the article I read was accurate.
20 posted on 12/25/2004 12:22:03 AM PST by TKDietz
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