Posted on 12/26/2004 3:08:03 AM PST by Lindykim
The Christian Underground http://www.christian-underground.com READ IT - LEARN FROM IT - PRAY OVER IT - SHARE IT --- Why 85 Episcopal churches closed their doors December 25, 2004 By Les Kinsolving
New Hampshire's Episcopal bishop, the Right Rev. Vicky Gene Robinson, continues to attract extensive coverage in our nation's left-wing dominated Old Media – because he is the only known Anglican (or Episcopal) prelate who left his wife and daughter and who now lives unmarried with his sodomist lover. The decision to consecrate him a bishop has caused a worldwide rift in the 77 million-member Anglican communion. There are further consequences at home in the United States.
Already reported has been the loss of $900,000 in pledged offering to the denomination's largest diocese: Virginia. Now there are more serious reports nationwide.
Episcopal religion writer David Virtue reports the following national denominational statistics for 2003 – which are very likely to be even worse when the 2004 reports are in next December. He reports: Attendance statistics for the Episcopal Church USA in 2003 reveal a church in continued steep decline with nearly 36,000 active baptized members leaving for greener theological pastures, a significant drop from 8,000 on 2002. Another 24,000 Sunday worshippers left the ECUSA last year, more than twice the previous year.
In 2002, the church claimed a membership of 2,320,221. In 2003, it was down to 2,284,233, the church officially declared.
If this walkout of 36,000 – while evangelical denominations continue to grow – seems grim, the next statistic is horrendous: Some 85 parishes closed their doors – 7,395 in 2002 to 7,220 in 2003. How much effort and financial sacrifice in building and maintaining all those parishes is now lost?
That is more than twice the number of parishes that exist in the Diocese of New Hampshire, the majority of whose clergy and laity elected Vicky Gene without any apparent concern about what so many of their fellow Episcopalians regard as a biblical abomination.
Further statistics:
-- Average Sunday attendance in 2002 was 846,640. In 2003 it was 823,017.
-- The percentage of churches with any increase in average Sunday attendance also dropped from 39 percent to 34 percent.
-- The most startling figure was that the median average Sunday worship attendance of all Episcopal churches across the whole country is 77 members (down from 79).
Despite all this, Bishop Robinson was a special guest on National Public Radio's "Fresh Air" which program was fair enough to allow one of Robinson's fellow bishops, Robert Duncan of Pittsburgh, to appear with him.
Bishop Duncan told the nationwide broadcast: The purported statistics do not bear out vs. Gene Robinson's view that the acceptance of homosexuality would make churches grow.
In a question from Terry Gross, who asked whether gays and lesbians coming into the church were counterbalancing folks who were leaving, Duncan responded saying: "The latest statistics show we lost 36,000 members last year, three times what we lost the year before."
Les Kinsolving hosts a daily talk show for WCBM in Baltimore. His radio commentaries are syndicated nationally. He is White House correspondent for Talk Radio Network and WorldNetDaily. His show can be heard on the Internet at www.wcbm.com 8-10 p.m. Eastern each weekday. Before going into broadcasting, Kinsolving was a newspaper reporter and columnist – twice nominated for the Pulitzer Prize for his commentary.
moderator@christian-underground.com http://www.christian-underground.com/archive/read.php?sid=51 Posted to the CU: 2004-12-25 12:42:31 CST ======================================== We will Pray WHEN we want School - WHERE we want Work - The Street - The Mall - Persecute Us At Your Own Peril! The Christian Underground http://www.christian-underground.com
You would be more than welcome to join.
Give the Mo. Synod Lutheran Church a look. I am an ex-Episcopalian who has gone through catechism and joined up, there. Impressive theology and Biblical scholarship with a liturgical service. But, be advised, not all parishes are doctrinally solid, sorry to say. Check out the WEBsite ReformationToday.tripod.com for a list of truly trustworthy parishes. You will probablhy not be able to commune without going through catechism, but Luther's Small Catechism is a real gem.
BUMP!
There was a big church in Seattle that made a big, public show recently about bringing in a gay minister. I think they lost a lot of people too. The good news is that the fastest growing Christian segment is Evangelicals.
My thanks to all of you.
It sounds like a time of real trial and soul searching for the many who loved the form of worship and the purity of the message offered by the Episcopal Church in times past. Perhaps something good will come of this crisis.
Is that original to you, or is it sourced somewhere else. I may want to use it some day, and I don't want to claim it as original, but would like to source it as well as possible. Thanks.
"WAS" is the correct terminology.
AND
When you boil it all down, there are really only two religions; the (God is sovereign) God-centered one, and the (man is sovereign) man-centered one.
It's quite instructive to notice how the man-centered one (in all of its various manifestations/organizations, including the religion of atheisism) all attempt to attain "perfection" through the efforts of man. The ideas of those who embrace that religion also follow this pattern.
Biblical Christianity: [1] The symptom is death, [2] the diagnosis is sin, [3] the prognosis is salvation, and [4] the prescription is repentance and faith. (Rm. 6:23 sums up all Christian theology).
The Man-centered religion --(even if they call it "Christianity" as many in The Religious Left do)--follows the "pattern", thus:
The "Four Noble Truths" comprise the whole of Buddhism, according to Buddha himself in the "Arrow Sermon." [1]to live is to suffer; all life is suffering. [2] the cause of suffering is selfish desire. [3] there is a way to end suffering and achieve Nirvana: namely, [4] to end desire. Take away the cause and you take away its effect. Fourth: the way to end desire is to practice the Noble Eight-fold Path, the Buddhist yoga of ego-reduction.
Freudianism also contains these four steps. [1]The symptoms are neurosis and psychosis. [2] The diagnosis says the cause is the conflict between id and superego, between individual animal desire and social norms. [3] The prognosis is homeostasis, or adjustment, a compromise of sorts. And [4] the prescription is psychoanalysis.
Marxism sees [1] the symptoms as class conflict, [2] the diagnosis is Capitalism, [3] the prognosis is the classless Communist society, and [4] the prescription is for a worldwide proletarian revolution.
Platonism sees [1] the symptoms as vice; [2] the diagnosis is ignorance; [3] the prognosis is virtue; and [4] the prescription is philosophical wisdom via the Socratic method.
And on and on, ad nauseum.
Its me.
It depends. I know of churches with less than 30 which are surviving (but certainly not thriving.). Property is all paid for and a shared, part time preacher mean that the expenses are minimal. Add in an endowment, or rent the place out for weddings for additional income, and a few members can last a long time.
Also take into account that an average of 50 may mean a bunch of churces with a handful of members hanging on with old endowments, and a few large healthy churches.
In the denomination to which I belong, the average size is in the 100-120 member range, but with at least 3 churches with over 5000 members, and a bunch more with 2000-5000. It takes a lot of small churehs to bring the average that low when you have several dozen mega churches.
It's an important part of the American tradition, and a decent part in many ways, but I see no reason to follow a tradition that has lost all of its substance.
I began my life in the Episcopal church, was married in a Presbyterian church, attended Baptist churches in my early married life and now belong to a small but stable Assemblies of God Church. The "speaking in tongues" issue was and has been a big struggle for me, but what I really appreciate is that my pastor presents the pure and unvarnished gospel *every* *single* *service*, including the Christmas Eve service this past Friday. I don't mind that he regularly prays for our troops in Iraq, and a particular favorite of mine is that God would grant our troops "supernatural power to find and defeat the enemy".
Don't be sad. The gates of hell cannot prevail against the invisible Church of God - the Bride of Christ - the Elect - in each of whom dwells the Spirit of God. [Rom.8:9]
All I want is a congregation that adheres to the Word of God, worships with reverence, sends, and respects the holiness of God. That's tough to find in a country where there seems to be three kinds of churches: Those that place the traditions of men above anything else and; those who get together and repeat Jesus-is-my-boyfriend songs every Sunday; and those who don't really believe that God has spoken on the matter of sin.
I'm in Bishop Lee's Diocese, too. I belong to one of the 5 or 6 large congregations in No. VA who are giving Bishop Lee more grey hair - well, making his hare white, I guess.
There were 3000 who met at "Plano East" where Bishop Dunca, former Bishop of Pittsburg was the keynote speaker.
It is my hope that the "Anglican Network" becomes a force for good and Orthodoxy in the Episcopal Church. My Rector & 2 Asistants are member and speak very little of it as it is trying to fly below the radar while at the same time, create a financial structure for support of Priests who have been summarily thrown out of their Churches (Malverne, Diocese of LI, e.g.,) and somehow get Orthodoxy back into ECUSA. I know - it's like believing in a parallel universe but it provides a way of not breaking with ECUSA while trying to separate from within somehow.
When I talke with friends of mine who are Priests and they haven't heard of or been to any Anglican Network meetings, I discover that they are very depressed and hopeless about the future of our Church. But when I get them to call one of those active in the AN here in NO. VA, they are encouraged, as they see the validity of what is being attempted.
tradition, boyfriend songs, and winking at sin.
I like those, annie.
Shallow worship, shallow devotion, and shallow behavior.
Good point, but you need to understand that it is just these sorts of "statistics" that matter most to the heirarchy of ECUSA. It's just a numbers game with them...How many people in the pews this week? How much money in pledges & offerings? Individual parishes "pad" their membership rolls in all cases EXCEPT when it comes time to report to the Diocese for calculating their assessment. Everything in ECUSA hangs on the numbers. You'll never see an ECUSA parish engaging in a Crusade, ala Billy Graham. They've absolutely no interest in saving souls or leading people to Christ UNLESS they can count on them in the pews & their offering in the plate next Sunday.
Some people were paying attention -- and it's been going on longer than that. I remember my father's complaints about the changes back in the 60s. There was more concern in the 70s; my barber was a member of the Society for the Preservation of the 1928 Prayer Book (or something like that). Then there was the formation of much of the Continuum in 1979, and a steady departure from ECUSA for some years after.
Wasn't that St. Mark's Cathedral? What an irony if so, because it's on "Cap Hill." (What do you call a straight couple on Cap Hill? Lost.)
Yes, the "Network" is actively being pursued by several in Bishop Lee's district. But like your parish leader, my rector speaks little of it either.
A couple of weeks ago, he did talk about the inadequacy of the Windsor report, and discussed (briefly and with subtlety) the "break", for lack of a better word. He said that it would be time consuming and messy. That was about all he said, and he didn't go into it much beyond that. I had to call someone to ask whether I heard it right, the message was so understated.
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