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Extra fence wanted to curb entrants
Arizona Daily Star ^ | 28 December 2004 | Ignacio Ibarra

Posted on 12/28/2004 8:28:00 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder

DOUGLAS - The U.S. Border Patrol wants to construct up to 18 miles of new secondary fencing, with most of it being placed about 60 feet north of the existing border wall here and at Naco.

The secondary fencing is included in a wish list of improvements and enhancements the Border Patrol is proposing in the Revised Draft Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement for its Tucson and Yuma sectors.

The report, initially released in October, is now under review.

The additional fencing is just "another enforcement tool that will allow the Border Patrol to patrol both sides of the fence. It will in effect decrease, if not stop, illegal crossing in the areas where it is used. And it will require less manpower to patrol those areas, said Andrea Zortman, a spokeswoman for the agency in Tucson.

The secondary wall also will increase deterrence in the urban areas of Naco and Douglas by allowing agents to patrol the corridor formed between the existing fencing and a second 12-foot fence, increasing the certainty of capturing illegal crossers, she said.

Exactly how much secondary fencing will be used, where it will be located and what type of construction materials will be used are not detailed in the draft of the environmental impact statement.

The request for secondary fencing initially was made in 2001, Zortman said, but things have changed since then. For example, additional manpower, miles of primary fencing and new surveillance equipment all have been installed in the area and have been effective in curbing illegal entries in the urban areas. And for the moment, the Border Patrol's priority is to install still more primary fencing, more lighting, sensors and cameras.

"It's still out there, it's still being studied," Zortman said of the secondary wall plan, "but it's definitely not on the front burner."

For residents living along the border in Douglas and Agua Prieta, Mexico, the debate over the need for additional border fencing is academic. Many said they favor anything that improves security in their neighborhood, whether it's more agents, additional lighting or a secondary border fence.

Things have improved along Agua Prieta's Calle Internacional in the eight years since the Border Patrol replaced the porous chain-link fence with a 12-foot barrier of steel poles, said Enriqueta Martinez, 69, who has lived a stone's throw away from the border for more than 20 years.

The constant traffic of migrants and smugglers has slowed. But at night, Martinez says, she still has to cope with people climbing over the fencing around her yard and up onto her roof where they hide behind the cooler to act as lookouts for the smugglers who continue to work her neighborhood.

"The other day I heard something and came out to see what was happening. I saw a man up on the roof. He told me, 'Don't be scared,' but how can you not be scared, when people are climbing onto your house?" she asked.

Down the street, Maria Elena Olivares, 41, a 25-year resident of Calle Internacional says the existing 12-foot barrier has had little impact on the flow of people through the neighborhood.

"It's the same, people still keep jumping over," she said. "That fence hasn't held back anything. I've watched people cut holes in it and even pull it down in sections.

"I don't think more fencing will work any better, it's just another fence to jump."

Still, she favors any effort to hold back the illegal activity that sometimes spills over from the street into her yard.

It's the same across the border for Fausto Valenzuela and his neighbors living along International Avenue in Douglas.

Eight years ago, there were so many people crossing the border and running through his neighborhood and yard that he'd come to regard home repairs or improvements as pointless.

Valenzuela, 56, who has lived next to the border for 37 years, says he spent much of his time trying to keep up with the damage to his chain-link fence caused as people jumped onto it and then over an adobe wall into his back yard in an effort to elude the Border Patrol.

"Before they put in that fence you couldn't fix anything because they'd break it, and you couldn't leave anything out because they'd take it," said Valenzuela, referring to illegal border crossers. "Those people did a lot of damage," he added.

He supports the construction of a secondary fence in front of his home and would like to see more patrols and more lighting in the area, too.

"It's not as bad now, but people still cross here. It would be good if they could stop it," he said.

Not everyone living in the area is eager to see the additional barrier, saying it will do nothing more than push the smuggling of illegal border crossers into increasingly remote areas beyond the fence where the risk of injury or death is greater, says longtime Douglas Mayor Ray Borane, who is among critics of the plan.

"It's ridiculous to spend more money on a second fence," he said. "The first one didn't work and now they want to put up a secondary fence like they use around prisons. It's not going to solve anything, it's just more eyewash and more money from the taxpayer."

Borane says he isn't surprised that the Douglas residents living nearest the border support the fence and additional enforcement because they have been most affected.

The fence addresses the symptoms and not the cause of the problem, he said.

"They say, 'It keeps traffic out of my yard or my neighborhood,' but then it's another person's back yard," Borane said. "And in the case of Douglas, that means farther out into the countryside."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: aliens; border; borderfence; borderpatrol; bordersecurity; fence; immigration; smugglers
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Naco and Agua Prieta had no real reason for existence until Operations Gatekeeper and Hold the Line pushed traffic out of San Diego and El Paso. Now they prosper as staging areas for illegals and drug smugglers.
1 posted on 12/28/2004 8:28:00 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder
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To: JackelopeBreeder

What about training real coyotes to do the job of scaring intruders? Just a morbid thought.


2 posted on 12/28/2004 8:29:41 PM PST by Kurt_D
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To: HiJinx; gubamyster; Happy2BMe; Spiff; SandRat; idratherbepainting; B4Ranch; Joe Hadenuf; ...

Ping!


3 posted on 12/28/2004 8:31:32 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Speak softly and carry a gopher snake!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

Two of the most disgusting cancers on our society are the drug trade and illegal immigration (to include slave trading). The solution is to erect a gigantic wall with a minefield and armed guards across the entire border and to beef up security patrols by the coast guard for the adjacent bodies of water. That will stem the tide of illegals to something less unreasonable. Either firebomb the hell out of the drug-producing areas of nations like Columbia or just legalize them and allow US businesses to use the free market to run the druglords out of business. Or, do neither one, and keep wondering why the problems don't get solved.


4 posted on 12/28/2004 8:34:07 PM PST by Voice in your head ("The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom, Courage." - Thucydides)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

They can use the SeaBee's to build the fence. They can use old beach matting for the fence. That is what they did in San Diego. It helped keep costs down and the Navy is far more productive than union contruction workers.


5 posted on 12/28/2004 8:38:38 PM PST by 82Marine89 (Merry CHRISTmas)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...

ping


6 posted on 12/28/2004 8:38:55 PM PST by gubamyster
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To: JackelopeBreeder
Douglas Mayor Ray Borane

And what is the honorable Mayor's solution? Amnesty for coyotes? Amnesty for drug runners? How about "tear down that wall"?

7 posted on 12/28/2004 8:40:19 PM PST by janetgreen
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To: Kurt_D

Real coyotes are too timid. There are other critters here that make better allies.


8 posted on 12/28/2004 8:41:09 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Speak softly and carry a gopher snake!)
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To: 82Marine89

A lot of the heavy fence work here has been by Marine Corps Reserve units.


9 posted on 12/28/2004 8:43:45 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Speak softly and carry a gopher snake!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder; All
Our "secure" border fence:

10 posted on 12/28/2004 8:48:07 PM PST by FBD (Report illegals and their employers at: http://www.reportillegals.com/)
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To: janetgreen

There is very little that I would characterize as honorable about Ray Borane -- not after listening to stories from Mexican-American friends who grew up with him.


11 posted on 12/28/2004 8:48:18 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Speak softly and carry a gopher snake!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder
Let's spend the bucks to put the fence from San Diego to Brownsville, TX. Double fence with mine field in the middle.

Politcally Incorrect I assume.

12 posted on 12/28/2004 8:48:49 PM PST by ImpBill (Twas a very good election for the Republic!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

The Marines are the better half of the Navy.

My in-laws gave thought to moving to Sierra Vista, but the illegals made them think twice. Now they're going to Prescott Valley.


13 posted on 12/28/2004 8:50:10 PM PST by 82Marine89 (Merry CHRISTmas)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: ImpBill

I prefer Claymores. Better kill zone.


15 posted on 12/28/2004 8:52:21 PM PST by 82Marine89 (Merry CHRISTmas)
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To: FBD

Allow me to show off my personal favorite urinal. The real border is just past the monument, so you need some decent hydraulic pressure to do the job right.

16 posted on 12/28/2004 8:54:35 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Speak softly and carry a gopher snake!)
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To: 82Marine89

i disagree. the fence they put up already is a piece of junk. a decent fence built to professional standards
is needed. seebees work hard but the end product needs
to be the product of modern materials and design, not
juryrigged surplus runway matting.


17 posted on 12/28/2004 8:56:09 PM PST by rahbert
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To: JackelopeBreeder

good pic,
I think I'll [snip] it


18 posted on 12/28/2004 8:59:24 PM PST by FBD (Report illegals and their employers at: http://www.reportillegals.com/)
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To: FBD
Why don't they build border fences the way they build prison fences... with lots of razor wire... but I guess that would also be politically incorrect, right?

19 posted on 12/28/2004 9:01:54 PM PST by mysto
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To: COEXERJ145

You're right. Land mines are far too impersonal and can't distinguish between illegals and innocent cattle and horses.


20 posted on 12/28/2004 9:04:20 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Speak softly and carry a gopher snake!)
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To: 82Marine89; JackelopeBreeder
I say: Hire the Chinese to do it! :^D
If they could build a 25 ft high wall, 4500 miles long 2000 years ago, then we sure as heck could do it today. I've watched specials on the building of the Alaska Pipeline, a border wall would be a piece of cake compared to that project.

21 posted on 12/28/2004 9:04:43 PM PST by FBD (Report illegals and their employers at: http://www.reportillegals.com/)
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To: mysto

A lot of local residents have adopted a very similar style of fencing close to their houses. Along with flood lights and packs of large dogs. Gives the place a nice ambience of something like Stalag 17.


22 posted on 12/28/2004 9:07:27 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Speak softly and carry a gopher snake!)
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To: mysto; JackelopeBreeder

>"Why don't they build border fences the way they build prison fences... with lots of razor wire..."<


Nah...make it like the Great Wall of China with a walkway on the top. (see my #19 post)
That way the open borders crowd could walk along the top, and wave hello to their friends! ;^D


23 posted on 12/28/2004 9:09:28 PM PST by FBD (Report illegals and their employers at: http://www.reportillegals.com/)
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To: FBD

........or contract it out to the Israelis.

24 posted on 12/28/2004 9:11:14 PM PST by Missouri
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To: JackelopeBreeder

LOL!
What are ya doing hurtin' little COEXERJ145's liberal sensiblities like that? Now he's going to have to ping his DU.COM pals; jveritas, bayourod and cultural jihad for emotional support!

;^D


25 posted on 12/28/2004 9:13:20 PM PST by FBD (Report illegals and their employers at: http://www.reportillegals.com/)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

I have been preaching this same thing for months. Now this is a double walls running parallel to each other about 100 yards apart with a minefield and moyion detectors between the walls and watch towers if needed. Mines can be energized or turned off electronically.

The walls are reinforced Concrete walls 8 - 10 feet high with Fencing mounted on top of it another 8 or 16 geet high. The ground in front of the fencing and the Fencing itslef has RAZOR wire facing out all the way up the front and on top.

Access through the fence is gaind via a check point. All Truck traffic is delivered to a warehouse area. The trucks are unloaded and shipments are inspected. Refrigeration is also available for perishable foods. Trucks and Drivers are impounded until inspection of shipment is completed. Only US Trucks deliver to the interior of the country.


26 posted on 12/28/2004 9:16:49 PM PST by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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To: Missouri

I like it, I wish we had one on our border. I think the Isrealis are having classes on Wall 101 , starting in the spring semester. Maybe we should send the VP to check it out>??


27 posted on 12/28/2004 9:19:25 PM PST by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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To: Missouri

jeez, looks like the Israelis even built a moat! What's that for burning oil? ;^D

On a serious note, the security wall in Israel has cut the homicide bombing attacks way down.

I'd bet our illegal problem would drop down to almost nothing, if we spent the money on a wall, instead of chasing them through the desert.

But no, we can't have that!


28 posted on 12/28/2004 9:20:38 PM PST by FBD (Report illegals and their employers at: http://www.reportillegals.com/)
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To: COEXERJ145

Whatever it takes!!


29 posted on 12/28/2004 9:20:41 PM PST by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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To: 26lemoncharlie; Missouri
I think you guys are right... the Israelis sure know how to put up a big fence...

30 posted on 12/28/2004 9:21:13 PM PST by mysto
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To: Missouri

Now THAT is a fence!


31 posted on 12/28/2004 9:21:15 PM PST by TLI ( . . . ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA . . . . . .)
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To: mysto

That's what I call Border Control!! We should send a picture to George!!


32 posted on 12/28/2004 9:22:43 PM PST by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: JackelopeBreeder

Just hink about all of the Drugs and other Crap that would be slowed down.


34 posted on 12/28/2004 9:25:20 PM PST by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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To: idratherbepainting

In the U.S. its called jogging. In mexico, its called 'preparing'.


35 posted on 12/28/2004 9:26:56 PM PST by 82Marine89 (Merry CHRISTmas)
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To: 26lemoncharlie
Maybe we should send the VP to check it out>??

Yea and he can contract Haliburton to build it !

36 posted on 12/28/2004 9:27:32 PM PST by Missouri
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To: FBD
On a serious note, the security wall in Israel has cut the homicide bombing attacks way down

Yes it has.

I noticed the moat, too. Flaming oil ! LOL !

37 posted on 12/28/2004 9:29:19 PM PST by Missouri
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To: rahbert

I've seen the new continuous paving machines. Why can't we develop a continuous wall machine. Say about 15' high. It won't keep them out but it will be more difficult.


38 posted on 12/28/2004 9:30:32 PM PST by dljordan
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To: FBD

Don't get me wrong, I still booby-trap the Illegal Alien Trails. New Years Eve party poppers, those aerosol horns people take to football games, giant fake spider webs made out of dental floss and Silly String and sprayed down with the magic liquid inside chem-lights.

How would you react at 3 a.m. if you you were walking into a drainage tunnel and got blasted by the sound of the Balrog from Lord of the Rings or a T Rex from Jurassic Park? Would your underware survive unblemished?


39 posted on 12/28/2004 9:33:13 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Speak softly and carry a gopher snake!)
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To: JackelopeBreeder

Only if it is topped with barbed wire--- and land mines between the two fences.


40 posted on 12/28/2004 9:34:54 PM PST by eccentric (aka baldwidow)
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To: Missouri

I don't CARE who builds it! Just BUILD it!! Create some JOBS IN the US!! ON the Border!!!


41 posted on 12/28/2004 9:35:05 PM PST by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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To: JackelopeBreeder; FBD; All
Everyone ought to check this thread out.

Link to thread

I don't know what the record number of post pulled on a thread is but this one is off to a good start.

BTW, its about illegal immigration.

42 posted on 12/28/2004 9:38:54 PM PST by Missouri
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To: mysto
That Israeli type concrete fence has always been my preference for protection the southern and northern borders of the US.

Sorry to say we'll never see it. The pro-illegal/FTAA forces in congress and the citizenry would never let it happen.

See now the destruction of the Republic; for we are living in the "age of the wimp".

Welcome to the New World Order. /sarcasm

43 posted on 12/28/2004 9:40:37 PM PST by Jasper ("Power flows from the barrel of a 10mm pistol.")
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To: 26lemoncharlie
Create some JOBS IN the US!! ON the Border!!!

And now a public service announcement from the US Department of Labor...
Has your job been outsourced? Has your factory town's last factory shut down? Then come to the Border! Come build the Wall! ;-D

Actually, instead of giving illegal alien workers the "jobs that Americans don't want," make them work on building the wall. Then send them home when they're done.

44 posted on 12/28/2004 9:41:40 PM PST by mysto
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To: mysto

.........thats a good picture. A nice high wall.


45 posted on 12/28/2004 9:42:38 PM PST by Missouri
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: 26lemoncharlie

Bump to that.


47 posted on 12/28/2004 9:43:30 PM PST by Missouri
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To: COEXERJ145

The theory being, you wont have to blow up but very few untill the word gets out. In fact, it wouldn't take that many mines, keep 'em guessing, is this area mined or not?


48 posted on 12/28/2004 9:47:14 PM PST by Boiling point (If God had not meant for man to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat!)
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: Missouri

Wow! Seven posts in a row pulled. I hope that Jim saved them for the Craziest of 2004 Bloopers...


50 posted on 12/28/2004 9:54:20 PM PST by JackelopeBreeder (Speak softly and carry a gopher snake!)
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