Posted on 12/30/2004 8:32:10 AM PST by conservativecorner
"On November 22, the FBI and Department of Homeland Security sent an intelligence bulletin to police agencies to alert them that terrorist groups have shown an interest in using laser beams to try to bring down airliners." From CNN, "Lasers illuminate airline cockpits on approach," with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Six commercial airliners in the past four days have had their cockpits illuminated by laser beams while attempting to land, a government official told CNN Wednesday. The incidents have happened "all over the place" and in "kind of odd places," the official said without elaborating.
None of the flights was affected.
The government official, who spoke to CNN on condition of anonymity, said it was unclear whether this week's incidents were the result of "kids who got a laser light for Christmas" or whether there is "some deliberate attempt to target aircraft."
The cockpit of a Continental Airlines 737 was illuminated by a laser Monday as it approached Cleveland, authorities said.
FBI spokesman Bob Hawk said the light, which shined into the cockpit at around 8 p.m., came from a suburb about 15 miles from the airport.
The FBI said no harm was done and the light did not affect the plane's landing.
On November 22, the FBI and Department of Homeland Security sent an intelligence bulletin to police agencies to alert them that terrorist groups have shown an interest in using laser beams to try to bring down airliners.
"Terrorist groups overseas have expressed interest in using these devices against human sight," the bulletin said. "The U.S. intelligence community has no specific or credible evidence that terrorists intend to use lasers to target pilots in the homeland."
The bulletin said lasers were not a proven method of attacking aircraft but that they could lead to a crash.
Lasers? It's the MANPADS I'm worried about.
You know, one has to wonder whether anyone would have even thought of doing this crap with lasers had CNN not suggested it in the first place.
To Paraphrase Dr. Evil...
"It's kids with frikkin laser beams..."
Most likely.
Kids with Dad's laser pointer?
Or they're using lasers to aim the MANPADS.
For those who received laser pointers for Christmas, it is a FEDERAL CRIME to use it to illuminate ANY occupied vehicle of ANY type. Pointing it at a moving car is just as illegal as pointing it at a moving plane.
For more threads on 'lazing' aircraft:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=laser
Six planes in four days is beyond all coincidence. Something's up.
Northeast Ohio Ping.
If you want on/off the list let me know.
But I wonder, how powerful a laser would be required for this, given that you need a fairly broad spot at the cockpit? 1W? 10W? Your 3 mW laser pointer wouldn't seem to be sufficient.
Except the reports I've read all mention GREEN lasers. Most toy laser pointers are red.
There was one here in Colorado this week too.
oops.
Seems we could use some satellite coverage to pinpoint some sources on this issue.
MM
I suspect this is the work of Kudos & Kang.
I recall the Seinfeld episode where the guy with the laser pen was tormenting George.
As if Dennis Kucinich wasn't enough...
In the last few weeks, consumer green laser pointers/toys have hit the market. I got "lit up" by some idiot kid while getting in my car from across the parking lot.
In Colorado Springs, Colo., Monday night, two pilots reported green pulsating laser lights shined into their cockpits. Both the passenger plane and a cargo plane landed without problems.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041230/ap_on_re_us/laser_beam_airplane_5
my guess is it was simply a lot of people looking for this:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/asteroid_risk_041224.html
I just don't see how this can be "laser pointers"...from what I remember from my Physics classes, the wattage of these laser pointers is very low. The dust and moisture in the air will dissipate and impede the beam after a few hundred yards. The comment above of the beam originating 15 miles away, to me, is absurd...someone is using HIGH POWER Lasers to target planes. Next, what about the ANGLES from the ground to the aircraft? The plane is HIGHER than the source, right? PLUS, the speed of the aircraft moving 'fifteen miles' away, how in the heck could someone manually track the plane? Isn't some curvature of the earth involved at that distance, I mean the horizon on a flat sea is only about 5 miles away... G
And could they really reach that high up?
No, sounds like trouble coming. Could even be a infrared scope?
Now that the airlines are putting all of us thru the patting and the security checks and taking off the shoes etc someone will try something from the outside? How do they secure the plane from that?
Mike Gallagher brought this subject up on his radio program over a month ago, and my husband called in to the show b/c Mike was basically trying to debunk these stories as nonsense. Dh worked with lasers (in some capacity -- can't remember what it was at the moment) in the USMC. He is also an airline pilot. Mike didn't know what to say after dh was finished answering his questions. Mike just went on to another subject.
Green lasers are out there, but this site is or at least was selling some very stong ones:
http://64.252.62.40.nyud.net:8090/lasershoppe/index.htm
However he has seen the light (so to speak) and is stopping. However, what one can do another can duplicate.
Yeah right, six incidents of targeting commercial airliners nationwide in just a few days might be kids with toy lasers. I hope no one in authority truly thinks this is just kids playing around.
it was unclear whether this week's incidents were the result of "kids who got a laser light for Christmas" or whether there is "some deliberate attempt to target aircraft." <<<
Yeah, Right. Kids who got a $10.00 laser light for Christmas are amusing themselves by pointing it at aircraft.
Does this "government Official" expect ANYONE to believe that? (Well, muslim kids, I might believe that)
Many amatuer astronomers have green laser to point out objects in the sky. They are kind of expensive, but, obtainable. We have used them to illuminate objects about one mile away (watertowers and the like) , but, I don't think they are powerful enough to go much further than that. Anyone know more?
Agreed, for once.
I know. We suffer here in Cleveland.
Seems to me after all this time they must have something to base this new security measure on.........(no immediate threat)??
LAX increases security
12/15/2004 4:11 PM
By: Capital News 9 web staff
Counterterrorism officials said steps are being taken at Los Angeles International Airport to protect jetliners against shoulder-launched missiles.
They said there is no immediate threat, but the security is being increased because of recent overseas strikes against airliners. They also estimate there are some 20,000 of the weapons available on the black market.
Security is being increased at Los Angeles International Airport because of recent attacks overseas.
Among the new precautions being taken are expanded helicopter surveillance and new perimeter fencing.
Last year, terrorists armed with a shoulder-launched missile struck a commercial cargo jet taking off from Baghdad International Airport, forcing the plane to make an emergency landing.
there was an asteriod discovered recently, chances of hitting earth. I think people were looking for it. post 25.
I would bet it is the former, not the latter. the same kind of bad seeds who throw rocks and frozen turkeys off of highway overpasses onto oncoming cars. When caught they need to be locked up for a long time.
That's my home. Pretty crazy. Remember a few years ago when a Russian ship blinded one of our pilots with a laser?
IIRC, it's 16 miles to the horizon from a flat beach.
That reminds me of that Tom Clancy book, "Debt of Honor", where CIA operatives use halogen tochlights to make the Japanese AWACS aircraft crash. It was the same book where a Japanese pilot crashjed his plane on the Capitol, which is supposed to have given AQ some ideas.
I just saw a comment on Fox from FAA that these lasers can't reach more than 3000 feet.
Duh, I would imagine that would be enough to light up a plane on approach or takeoff.
Horizon on flat sea = 15 miles
This topic has been around for a long time, it seems:
Aerosp Med. 1969 Feb;40(2):196-7. Related Articles, Links
Protection of pilots against lasers.
Goldman L, Rockwell RJ Jr, Epstein R, Kinneman RE, Schechter E, Meyer R.
PMID: 5764500 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
No, I missed that.
This trial and error laser of the cockpits of planes has been going on now for several months at least IIRC as reported by the FBI.
CK/ping
A couple of years ago I was setting at a stop light when the dirtball in the car behind me decided to flash a laser pointer into my mirrors. I simply shifted the Suburban (killer SUV) into reverse and let it start creeping toward his car. There was another car behind him so he could not get away. Once he was boxed in I got out and explained the facts of life (or death) to him and his buddies. As soon as I pulled forward they left the turn lane and shot on down the street. On re-thinking the situation, I should have called 911 and reported it.
Whoever is do it, they are not doing it with the little laser pens. These are pretty sophisticated lazers that can track a cockpit of a commercial airline.
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