Vatican paper raps Sri Lanka on Israeli aid (correction)

Catholic World News ^ | 12/30/04

[Bella_Bru]

Follow his posting history. He has tried to use Al Jazeera as a reliable source.

[Bella_Bru]

The media have always run with a story, right or wrong.

As I said, thank you for printing the correction and I apologize.

[B Knotts]

You make some good points. One thing that bothers me, though, is the idea that the U.N. is somehow authoritative on what constitutes a just war (and that is what has been implied by some in the Curia).

The U.N. stands for so much that the Church must always oppose. I would hope that the Curia would look at it a little more critically.

It is true, though, that while Saddam was not fit to rule, it is not always easy to predict that what will follow will be better. I pray that it is so, and I think there is at least some chance of the Iraqis succeeding in self-rule.

[processing please hold]

The priest' have sullied the reputation of the church, not non-Cathloics.

The pope exacerbates the problem by ignoring it. That is what leaves the church open for criticism.

[Thorin]

>>>>>>>>You make some good points. One thing that bothers me, though, is the idea that the U.N. is somehow authoritative on what constitutes a just war (and that is what has been implied by some in the Curia).<<<<<<<<

I agree with you about reliance on the UN. I certainly don't want to see the President need to consult with the UN before going to war.

But I do think the mess in Iraq shows why the Church has always taught that war is justified only as a last resort. By its very nature, war is chaotic and unpredictable. Those who start war cannot predict the outcome, and not infrequently they are appalled by what they beget. However, like you, I also hope that good comes out of the current chaos in Iraq.

Speaking of anti-Catholicism, you may wish to take a look at the debate petconservative and I have been having on another thread.

[mewzilla]

Took'em long enough.

[jwpjr]

Your view of what is being done in Iraq, and the reasons for which it's being done, are at odds. The difference in our views is such that we will have a difficult time finding common ground. I have a grandson, a son-in-law and a nephew serving on the ground in Iraq, the reports I receive from them bear no resemblance to the reports I read in the papers and see on the news. If pursuing a course of action is ultimately wrong because the beliefs used to justify that action are eventually shown to be mistaken then a lot of us are in big trouble. Most world leaders, including Bill Clinton at the time, stated a belief that that regime had weapons of mass destruction and, based on their willingness to use them in the past when threatened, felt they would pass them on to terrorists if the opportunity presented itself. As for a last resort, at what point do you consider diplomacy to have failed. Saddam told us he had the weapons and would use them, the intelligence agencies around the world told us the had them, and all he had to do to avoid invasion was simple 'fess up and let us prove to our own satisfaction that he was telling the truth. They were there at one point, the UN inventoried them. If they had been destroyed then just say so. Nope, he was stalling for time and in the six months to a year that we tried to muster support from the other countries in the UN Security Council to demand that he come clean he moved them to Syria or hid them. We may never know which, or what happened to them simply because at the same time he was stalling he was bribing those very countries to interferer with our attempts to have the UN back up its tough talk with actions. I am not Catholic, but I have no argument with those who are, and in fact admire their spiritual dedication and the work the Church does to help the poor and needy around the world, so I guess the bottom line is that we will have to agree to disagree. God bless America!

[Thorin]

God bless America!

Agreed! And I am impressed that so many of your family members are serving our country in Iraq.

[jwpjr]

The grandson is a Marine, the son-in-law is an army major on the staff of CentCom out here at MacDill AFB who spends about half his time on TDY over there, and the nephew is, what would in my day have been a master sergeant, in the army and lived in the auto garage bay of a building in Baghdad for six months and is going to be stationed now in Germany where his wife and daughter can join him. I know that whole campaign over there is a crap shoot but even the son-in-law (who is the world's greatest pessimist!) thinks we stand at least an even chance of changing the political climate of that part of the world. I am a Southern Baptist and have always been mightily impressed with my friends who were Catholic! I put them and their religious practices in the same category I put my grandson being in the Marines, I doubt seriously I have the personal constitution for either. I shoot a lot of weddings and I always look forward to the Catholic services, so beautifully structured!

[Racehorse]

But I do think the mess in Iraq shows why the Church has always taught that war is justified only as a last resort.

Wonder how Augustine would have judged Pope Julius II?

[Racehorse]

I know that whole campaign over there is a crap shoot but even the son-in-law (who is the world's greatest pessimist!) thinks we stand at least an even chance of changing the political climate of that part of the world.

Your pessimist son-in-law is right, I think.  For better or worse--I think for the better--we have already changed the political climate over there.  The question remains as to what the tribes and sects will make of the opportunity they have been handed.

I like to remind people we did not come out of the American Revolution with a constitutional system that worked.  We had to suffer through the Articles of Confederation for a little while.  Come to think of it, at the conclusion of the American Revolution I don't think we--the colonies now become individual states--actually considered ourselves Americans.

[jwpjr]

I am really pretty much evenly split as to how I feel it will work out. You are certainly correct that even our system did not work all that well initially. I have a difficult time believing that a people who have know nothing but a dictatorship can adjust to a system of self government. I am still hopeful that we will all be surprised by the outcome!

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[xJones]

Kudos to your posts 67, 69, and 72 from another Southern Baptist!

Change takes time, and certainly more time in that part of the world. But after WWII, Japan was transformed into a democracy and no one would have bet that could happen. Occupation forces in Germany were attacked until it began tapering off in 1947. Our media at that time didn't report the American casualties because it was considered demoralizing for the home front.

And BTW, congratulations on your family.:)