Posted on 01/06/2005 1:50:57 PM PST by Remember_Salamis
Willie,
I've seen you attack this plan, but honestly, I've never seen you advocating anything in place of the current sytem or keeping the what we have.
I don't see this plan as convoluted at all. It's about as simple and fair as I can imagine any tax plan.
That doesn't sound very enticing for a sales tax pitch, but,
Would these would be the same people not smart enough to ever look at their check stubs or their tax return?
Well 19th Century Prussia was closer to a feudal system than it was to a market economy.
What's feudal about keeping ALL of the money you earn? What's wrong with imported goods carying the same tax overhead as domestic goods?
That must be the bill with that new up to date rate we've been hearing about...Is it?
Yes, it does. But after all we have meant to each other over the last 3 days, can't you trust me? LOL
Seriously, I was a flat taxer since the early 60's. I fought against this plan because I thought the rate was too high and encouraged the spending that we have now, but in the last two years realized that this plan will do more to restore liberty and lighten our tax burden than any other.
Please take the time to read Ancient_Geezer's posts especially. He's the real guru here. Go to the sites that he has linked. You'll find a wealth of info.
This plan is simple, fair, and visible. What more can anyone ask of a tax plan?
I have been active in promoting this plan for almost a year and I have to tell you that those that I have met who are supporting this plan are the finest people that you'll ever meet. They are mostly sincere, honest, conservatives but as more and more democrats take an honest look at it, they sign on too.
The plan is simplicity itself, but what it does in terms of rolling back the huge leviathon is even more impressive.
Well I don't know where you've been, because I've been adovocating an alternative for years: A Proposal to Abolish the Corporate Income Tax
Furthermore, I also support reforms to implement the "Flat Tax" for individual income taxes,
and if you look up some of the current Social Security reform threads, you'll note that I also advocate an alternative proposal on most of those as well.
I truly enjoy your cogent posts. Thanks.
I debated a local Chicago radio personality the other evening. I advocated the FairTax (NRST), as I have for the last dozen years, and he represented the flat income tax.
Nice guy. Fellow conservative. But since he is a basically honest individual, he had no choice but to concede virtually EVERY point. :-)
I'll post the transcript when it becomes available.
Again, thanks for your clear and sensible posts, my friend.
That must be the bill with that new up to date rate we've been hearing about...Is it?
Nope, won't happen until after Bush makes his tax cuts permanent, as you well know.
In the mean time you'll be stuck with paying for those federal business and personal income/payroll taxes.
Unless of course you figure anyone's going to enact the current version of the NRST sometime soon with its 23% less FCA rate instead.
I'll more than willing to wait for the Bush tax cuts to get enacted permanantly myself, then push the NRST at the lower revenue neutral rates that result.
refer Tax Freedom Day 2004 PDF http://www.taxfoundation.org/sr129.pdf
|
Total Effective Tax Rates by Level of Government |
|||
| Year | Federal | State | Total |
| 1997 | 21.8% | 10.3% | 32.1% |
| 1998 | 22.4% | 10.4% | 32.8% |
| 1999 | 22.5% | 10.4% | 32.9% |
| 2000 | 23.1% | 10.4% | 33.5% |
| 2001 | 22.2% | 10.5% | 32.7% |
| 2002 1 | 19.7% | 10.2% | 29.2% |
| 2003 2 | 18.5% | 10.1% | 28.6% |
| 2004 3 | 17.9% | 10.0% | 27.9% |
| Notes: Leap day is omitted to make dates comparable over time. Since depreciation is not available to pay taxes, GDP is an overstatement of spendable income for the purpose of measuring tax burdens. Depreciation is netted out of NNP. 1 Economic Growth and Tax Reform Reconciliation Act of 2001 Sources: Office of Management and Budget; Internal Revenue Service; Congressional Research Service; National Bureau of Economic Research; Treasury Department; and Tax Foundation calculations. |
|||
Thanks. That's high praise coming from you.
Be sure to ping me when you get the transcript posted.
Nothing, as long is it isn't confiscated by a sales tax as soon as you try to spend it.
For those on the lower rungs of the economic ladder who must spend a greater proportion of their earnings on the necessities of life, the sales tax becomes a greater burden than on those capable of earning and saving more. This is what makes a sales tax "regressive" and oppressive.
What's wrong with imported goods carying the same tax overhead as domestic goods?
Nothing, as long as domestic production isn't hampered by other regulatory burdens that place them at an economic disadvantage. However, when the government places these burdens on domestic production, a similar tax should be placed on imported goods so that domestic efforts are not undermined.
Estimates are that there exists a $1 Trillion underground, off the books economy. Only a VAT, NST or some derivative will get at that consumption and capture tax revenue due. A flat tax will not. If a VAT or NST were enacted, the deficit would be slashed (assuming 'rats and rinos are stopped from spending at the current rates)
One last time, I'm posting my protest song. I wrote it the other morning and put it on various threads, hope you enjoy it:
Why do we pay them to rob us?
And hire them to steal us blind?
Congressmen, senators,
Thinking up ways
Of taking our money
To fund their pet projects
And sending the bills
And the taxpayer pays….
And pays….
And pays…
Why do we pay them to rob us,
Hire them to steal us blind?
Why send them to Washington,
Year after year,
To write some new tax law
For the IRS loonies
To send us the bills
And the taxpayer pays…
And pays….
And pays….
Why do we pay them to rob us,
Hire them to steal us blind?
They’re forming new agencies
Year after year,
With new regulations
For people and business
And send us the bills
And the taxpayer pays
And pays
And pays
Why do we pay them to rob us,
Hire them to steal us blind?
The teachers aren’t teaching,
It’s diversity preaching
In all “public” schools.
Do they take us for fools?
Then they send us the bills
And the taxpayer pays,
And pays,
And pays….
Why do we pay them to rob us?
Hire them to steal us blind?
They say they can’t fix it
I think they just won’t
Because it would threaten
Their jobs, don’t you know,
And their little pet projects,
And the IRS madness
And their agency friends
Would have no where to go
To burden the people
And regulate them
And threaten to take them
To court or to prison
Or ruin their business
Or family farm
So the taxpayer pays
And pays
And pays
There's no music for it, can't think of a melody yet. Hope y'all enjoy it. I promise not to post it again.
Thanks for the link.
I'll keep my support of the FairTax.
NRST provides a spending allowance, of which all taxes are refunded monthley. Plus, it isn't so much confiscated as it is a fee charged to access the free market. Besides, lower income folks buy less retail on large ticket items.
Think of it this way, would you rather have taxes taken out of the investments principle or out of the return? Income tax does both, NRST only hits the return...and only if you buy new.
Fair tax bump. The USA would become the world's tax haven. You want jobs? You'll have jobs. We'll be importing labor more than we are now.
Willie,
Please read the bill. Whereas a pure sales tax is regressive, the FairTax is a modified sales tax. While reading the bill, you will learn that NO ONE will pay tax on poverty level expenditures. NO ONE will pay embedded corporate taxes. NO ONE will pay 15.3% in FICA and Medicare.
Since the poor do spend a larger portion of their incomes.....the current system is CRUELLY regressive, but most of the taxation that they bear is hidden from view.
Once the Fair Tax is enacted, the purchasing power of lower and middle income groups will INCREASE.
Please do not criticize this bill until you've read it, and understood the full ramification of the proposed changes.
Try reading the proposal. Those at the lower end of the economic scale come out much better than they are now. Why? They pay NO sales tax on the basics and they pay NO payroll or medicare tax.
You beat me to it CG.
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