High School Equivalency Exam

World Wide Web Links | 1/6/05 | Kevin O'Malley

[Kevin OMalley]

I've been getting asked more and more about my position that high school is a waste of time and my recommendation for parents to give their children a choice to skip high school. This is in response to the liberal agendas now prevalent in high schools as well as the simple fact that such a strategy would give kids a 4 year head start on their peers. Below are some useful links for investigating this option. I will repost my own experience under that.

http://parents.berkeley.edu/advice/school/equivexam.html

UCB Parents Advice about School Taking the High School Equivalency Exam Advice and recommendations from the UCB Parents mailing list. This page is brought to you by UC Berkeley Parents Network Back to: Advice about School & Preschool --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does GED differ from CHSPE? What's an R-4 Affadavit? 16-year-old wants to drop out & take the GED

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sp/documents/faq.pdf

California High School Proficiency Exam (CHSPE) Frequently Asked Questions — FAQs

http://www.hsc.org/chaos/teens/tests.php

Tests (CHSPE and GED) By Wes Beach Tests provide a limited means of measuring test-taking ability and maybe other things. Don't let them be any kind of measure of who your kids are. They can, however, serve important practical purposes such as high school completion or college admissions and credit.

There are two tests by means of which to earn a high-school-diploma-equivalent certificate: the California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) and the General Educational Development (GED). The CHSPE has a narrower focus and tests skills and knowledge in reading, math, writing, and language. The GED includes these areas and also tests in science and social studies. Opinions vary about which test is more difficult, and different perceptions probably arise from kids with different strengths. The GED is more widely known and may be more readily accepted, although it is a myth that the CHSPE Certificate is unacceptable outside California.

In California (different states have different rules), anyone 18 or older can take the GED, and there are exceptions for somewhat younger people under some circumstances. It is administered by adult education schools in public school districts and is offered frequently. Contact your local adult school for information on the GED or call the GED Office at the California Department of Education at (800) 331-6316.

The CHSPE may be taken by anyone who, on the day of the exam, is 16 or older, or has finished the tenth grade, or is enrolled in the second semester of the tenth grade. This exam is offered two or three times a year at test sites throughout the state. CHSPE information bulletins can be found at high schools and libraries or at http://www.chspe.net/. For questions not answered in the bulletin, call (866) 342-4773. There is a great deal of misinformation about the CHSPE floating around, especially within the public schools. Check the official bulletin to confirm anything you hear. A student who passes the CHSPE still has the right to attend public high school if desired.

If a CHSPE or GED certificate is to be used for admission to college, entering the military, specific job requirements, etc., be sure to check at the source (the colleges, the military, the employer, etc.) regarding their policies.

Preparation books for these exams can be found in bookstores and libraries.

The College Board/Educational Testing Service offers a number of exams that can support college admission and/or can lead to college credit:

The PSAT, a shortened version of SAT I, is usually taken by high school juniors. If a student is in high school at the time he takes this test, he is automatically entered into the National Merit Scholarship competition. The PSAT is administered by high schools on their campuses; non-enrolled students may be allowed to take the test. Contact local high schools. SAT I (possibly along with SAT II) may be required for admission to four-year colleges and universities. There are two parts to SAT I: verbal—analogies, sentence completions, and critical reading questions—and math at the high school college preparatory level. The SAT's (I & II) are given at test sites throughout the state; sites are listed in the application booklet (see below). SAT II is a set of separate tests on high school subjects—world history, chemistry, French, etc. Advanced Placement: Colleges often grant credit for sufficiently high scores on AP exams. These exams are final exams in college-level classes taught in high school and are given at high schools at the end of the courses; students who have not taken the courses may be allowed to take the exams. Colleges also grant credit for good scores on CLEP exams. These exams are generally easier than AP exams, are given at test centers throughout the state, and cover the content of more than thirty college-level courses. ACT (formerly American College Testing) offers the ACT, a somewhat broader college admission test that colleges may use instead of or in addition to the SAT. The ACT consists of four sections: English, math, reading, and science. Even when SAT/ACT scores aren't required, they provide one way (there are others) to demonstrate academic ability and acquired knowledge in the absence of a traditional transcript. It may be possible to gain admission to the schools your kids choose through testing alone, and impressive test scores always add strength to a college application. Just as in the case with the SAT/ACT, good scores on AP and/or CLEP exams can support a college application. Check carefully with colleges of interest for their policies regarding credit. Classes that prepare students for these tests may be offered by high schools, adult schools, community colleges, and private companies.

Guides and preparation materials can be found in libraries and bookstores. Explanatory and application materials from the College Board and ACT can be found at high schools, colleges, and libraries, and also can be obtained directly from the College Board at (510) 873-8000 or at http://www.collegeboard.org; SAT tests will be changing within the next few years. To keep informed of those changes, check the website http://www.collegeboard.com/about/newsat/newsat.html. Information about the ACT can be obtained at (916) 631-9200 or at http://www.act.org. Information on the GED is available at http://www.acenet.edu/calec/ged.

http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/000064.htm

College Confidential: Does CHSPE = GED?

Question: When colleges say that they accept GEDs, what does that mean for the CHSPE? Do they accept that credential as a high school diploma? If not, what should I do?

At the California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) Web site (www.cde.ca.gov/statetests/chspe) you can find an Information Bulletin and Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about the CHSPE. California law states that the Certificate of Proficiency provided to students who pass the CHSPE is equivalent to a high school diploma. In other words, institutions that are subject to California law and that require a high school diploma must also accept the CHSPE. (However, the Certificate of Proficiency is not equivalent to completing all course work required for regular graduation from high school.)

Therefore, if you've received the CHSPE Certificate of Proficiency, your certificate would be equivalent to a high school diploma. The Certificate of Proficiency is not equivalent to completing all course work required for regular graduation from high school in California. However--and this is a good caveat for most general college-entrance-related questions--you should always check with the admissions offices (or admissions sections of the Web sites) of those colleges to which you are considering applying. This is especially important if you're interested in colleges and universities outside of California that may not accept the CHSPE or may not even be familiar with it.

[Max Combined]

"But I know that employers DO in fact prefer high school diplomas to GEDs."

You "know" no such thing. You may know of some employers who prefer high school diplomas to GEDs. You may correctly surmise that most employers prefer high school diplomas to GEDs when the applicant has only a high school education. But you cannot know what every employer in the country prefers. I dare say that there are more than a few employers who have a GED themselves who quite prefer to hire workers who also have a GED rather than a high school diploma.

I cannot believe that many employers care one way or the other about high school diplomas when the applicants have a college degree.

[yarddog]

I loved high school but it was not the same as today.

I would think a degree based on an exam, assuming it was appropriately difficult, would be better than a diploma at determining a students proficiency.

I have two masters degrees but also think a Masters or Doctorate based on appropriate exams would be better than the current degreees. Yes I know all about the orals, theses, dissertations etc.

I would far prefer a teacher who passed a difficult exam to get their certificate to one who completed an education degree program at a University.

[Kevin OMalley]

The universities are filled with immigrant professors with accents so thick that you can barely make out one sentence. They couldn't teach well enough to save their daughter's life, but they're really good at passing exams.

[Max Combined]

"I took a number of advanced courses in 11th and 12th grades that have broadened my education."

Any reason that you could not take those classes at a community college? My daughter is studying chemical engineering at Rice, but she went to community college at 15. She went to community college for three years and got over 90 credits and she took all sorts of classes to broaden her education that she would not have taken had she gone straight into Chemical Engineering, since so much of the Chemical Engineering course work is prescribed by the department.

At community college she took things like extra English classes, accounting, economics, private voice lessons, Spanish, as well as all the calculus, physics, and chemistry classes that permit her to take a lighter load at Rice.

[1stFreedom]

>>>The FR HS diploma proposal has nothing to do with indoctrination. I was answering your implied conditional.

What is the point of a FR diploma? Think about that for a minute, the fact that it is assocated with FR is a big clue.

>>what if you're a child who isn't being taught faith & morals?

Then I doubt you'd be interested in a FR diploma in the first place.

>> How can you escape the prison of PC moral relativism being force fed in our high schools today?

I already gave you the answer: home school. but that doesn't imply home indoctrination either. All we need are more rabid capitalists (most of whom's moral positions are flaky). Admittedly the left is pumping out rabid socialists and communists. But it's like fighting evil with evil, not a real solution.

[yarddog]

I got my first degree in 1967 and my last in 1991.

I don't recall having a single immigrant professor at any of my schools except one Hungarian refugee who was a right wing fanatic, and I liked him.

The ability to teach, imo is more inborn than learned. Sort of like being a sprinter. You can improve a little but you can't put in what God left out.

[Max Combined]

"Someone who has been out of the classroom for years is going to have a much harder time adjusting to routine college-level courses than someone who has recently graduated from high school."

Maybe, but our experience with our daughter went: homeschooled until fifteen, community college for three years, Rice University. Rice is a competitive college with only 25% of applicants being accepted and only 10% of transfer students being accepted.

[Max Combined]

"If you teach your children faith and morals as principal values, they can find the truths which lay in each economic system."

We homeschooled our daughter and my wife taught my daughter faith and morals as principal values and I taught her that leftist and liberals suck big time and to vote for Dubya.

[Max Combined]

"I'm home schooling, rather have him alive than shot dead in educated hood high school. Actually he's ahead and should graduate faster."

We homeschooled our daughter and now that she is twenty, we are very happy that we did. We had to send her to community college at fifteen, because by that time, the math was getting too difficult for my wife to teach. Still, we considered the community college environment to be much less conformist and controlling.

[Max Combined]

"fighting evil with evil"

Capitalism is not evil.

[1stFreedom]

>> leftist and liberals suck big time and to vote for Dubya.

A perfect example of what I mean.

This isn't education, it's training. There is a big difference. Liberals don't suck on every position, and neither do leftists. (That doesn't mean there isn't a high number of issues they do suck on. ;-) )

Just as every milkmaid thought they were bible scholars back in the day of Martin Luthor, many in the homeschool movement think they are political and economic experts. (The problem is there is no perfect system, and there are moral truths contained in the systems.)

Why not teach your children critical thinking skills, Epistemology , and your faith?

We have a bunch of ignorant leftists running around. Let's not add ignorant rightists to the mix. Instead, add people who really can't be pegged -- people who can think each issue through.

[Myrddin]

I graduated from high school in 1973 at age 16. That effort started just after 8th grade. Two sessions of summer school each year. High school was 10th grade and 12th grade with full senior privileges. The catch was that I petitioned the school board to define class standing by credits earned...standard procedure in colleges. Twenty other students expressed a desire to follow my lead. We all graduated a year early...with full privileges.

I was remiss in not applying to UCSD in time for the Fall 1973 quarter, but my application was accepted for Winter 1974. I filled in the summer with a microbiology class and the Fall semester with 16 units of math, chemistry, English and PE. At UCSD, I took 18 to 22 units every quarter and double summer school sessions again. I graduated with a BA in Molecular Biology from Revelle College, UCSD in June 1976 at age 19. School is a time to work your butt off to get ahead of your peers.

The GED option was not an option in 1973. UCSD had a bunch of requirements that were satisfied by specific courses completed in high school. American history and government classes in particular. The high school German classes just were not up to snuff for the Revelle foreign language proficiency. That requires a score of 680 or above on the SAT II in the language plus a verbal interview with native speakers. The interview starts with a requirement to read an article in a current magazine, then discuss it with the interviewer.

I'm not sure the GED is necessarily the road to success. It is a short cut out the door. If you have the personal discipline to continue studying the necessary material to move ahead academically, then it is probably OK.

I should have pursued a double major in electrical engineering and computer science. That wasn't the preferred route to medical school. The affirmative action quota systems and medical malpractice suits and insurance caused me to re-evaluate my career direction. Barnes & Noble, HBJ, Amazon and others deserve credit for making the necessary computer science and electrical engineering books. I'm doing what I should have done now.

[Ciexyz]

My daughter is studying chemical engineering at Rice, but she went to community college at 15.

Kudos to your daughter for all her hard work, and here's wishing her success in her career.

Not everyone can afford to bypass free high school classes to attend community college in lieu of HS. And in HS the student has extended time to concentrate on a discipline, for ex., nine months to master a foreign language vs. a three-month course in college. There's no way that a first year college language course (ex., Spanish I) is equivalent to a full nine months of study in HS. This is the best way to give a student a thorough grounding in disciplines such as foreign languages.

I can testify to this fact. I studied two foreign languages in high school, then started a third from scratch at college, and nothing beats the intense language study at the HS level.

[Do not dub me shapka broham]

Actually, I was referring more to "continuing education", i.e. adult, students than to teenagers who have been (primarily) home-schooled.

There's a great documentary, "Spellbound", which serves as a perfect illustration of the values of following this educational method, if the child has responsible, well-informed parents at the helm.

[Max Combined]

"nothing beats the intense language study at the HS level."

Except going and living in a country where they speak that language and very little English. There is nothing like a long haired dictionary, in my experience. It is all a matter of motivation.

[SauronOfMordor]

My oldest daughter (homeschooled) started college at 15

The way we did it was have her get a good SAT score (1300), declare her as having skipped a couple of grades and being a HS senior, and enrolled her in a program at the local community college where smart highschoolers can do their senior year at the college, and pick up college credits that are transferrable to a regular 4-year college.

If your kid is a homeschooler wanting to go to college, and your local CC has a similar program, I would recommend it. It gives the kid a lot of credibility when applying to places if she already is doing college work at an accredited college and getting good grades

[Ciexyz]

I agree, immersion in a language, by living in that culture, is the best way to learn a language.

But a solid educational preparation should be made beforehand.

I encourage every student to take at least three years, not just the required two, in a foreign language. If for no other reason, it looks great on your college application, when you take more than the required minimum.

[PokerGod]

Obviously the one with the AA degree. But most people with GEDs don't go on to get AAs.

[PokerGod]

You are correct, but now you are being disingenuous.

I never mentioned anything about a college degree.

Obviously if someone with a GED gets a college degree then they will be more attractive as a job candidate than someone who just has a high school diploma.

But if an employer sees two people, one with a GED, and one with a high school diploma, and no college for either, he is probably going to favor the candidate with the diploma.

And, yes, I do know such a thing.

I understand that there is a lot of hatred of public schooling on here, but the fact remains that most employers prefer high school diplomas to GEDs when you leave college out of the equation.

[Ciexyz]

There's another thing to consider about pushing your kids into community college at age 16: they'll be dealing with older and more mature kids. They'll be dating older and mature kids. Food for thought. If your 16 year old daughter thinks she's facing pressure to have sex by high school boys....