Posted on 01/06/2005 7:58:45 PM PST by Kevin OMalley
I've been getting asked more and more about my position that high school is a waste of time and my recommendation for parents to give their children a choice to skip high school. This is in response to the liberal agendas now prevalent in high schools as well as the simple fact that such a strategy would give kids a 4 year head start on their peers. Below are some useful links for investigating this option. I will repost my own experience under that.
http://parents.berkeley.edu/advice/school/equivexam.html
UCB Parents Advice about School Taking the High School Equivalency Exam Advice and recommendations from the UCB Parents mailing list. This page is brought to you by UC Berkeley Parents Network Back to: Advice about School & Preschool --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How does GED differ from CHSPE? What's an R-4 Affadavit? 16-year-old wants to drop out & take the GED
http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sp/documents/faq.pdf
California High School Proficiency Exam (CHSPE) Frequently Asked Questions — FAQs
http://www.hsc.org/chaos/teens/tests.php
Tests (CHSPE and GED) By Wes Beach Tests provide a limited means of measuring test-taking ability and maybe other things. Don't let them be any kind of measure of who your kids are. They can, however, serve important practical purposes such as high school completion or college admissions and credit.
There are two tests by means of which to earn a high-school-diploma-equivalent certificate: the California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) and the General Educational Development (GED). The CHSPE has a narrower focus and tests skills and knowledge in reading, math, writing, and language. The GED includes these areas and also tests in science and social studies. Opinions vary about which test is more difficult, and different perceptions probably arise from kids with different strengths. The GED is more widely known and may be more readily accepted, although it is a myth that the CHSPE Certificate is unacceptable outside California.
In California (different states have different rules), anyone 18 or older can take the GED, and there are exceptions for somewhat younger people under some circumstances. It is administered by adult education schools in public school districts and is offered frequently. Contact your local adult school for information on the GED or call the GED Office at the California Department of Education at (800) 331-6316.
The CHSPE may be taken by anyone who, on the day of the exam, is 16 or older, or has finished the tenth grade, or is enrolled in the second semester of the tenth grade. This exam is offered two or three times a year at test sites throughout the state. CHSPE information bulletins can be found at high schools and libraries or at http://www.chspe.net/. For questions not answered in the bulletin, call (866) 342-4773. There is a great deal of misinformation about the CHSPE floating around, especially within the public schools. Check the official bulletin to confirm anything you hear. A student who passes the CHSPE still has the right to attend public high school if desired.
If a CHSPE or GED certificate is to be used for admission to college, entering the military, specific job requirements, etc., be sure to check at the source (the colleges, the military, the employer, etc.) regarding their policies.
Preparation books for these exams can be found in bookstores and libraries.
The College Board/Educational Testing Service offers a number of exams that can support college admission and/or can lead to college credit:
The PSAT, a shortened version of SAT I, is usually taken by high school juniors. If a student is in high school at the time he takes this test, he is automatically entered into the National Merit Scholarship competition. The PSAT is administered by high schools on their campuses; non-enrolled students may be allowed to take the test. Contact local high schools. SAT I (possibly along with SAT II) may be required for admission to four-year colleges and universities. There are two parts to SAT I: verbal—analogies, sentence completions, and critical reading questions—and math at the high school college preparatory level. The SAT's (I & II) are given at test sites throughout the state; sites are listed in the application booklet (see below). SAT II is a set of separate tests on high school subjects—world history, chemistry, French, etc. Advanced Placement: Colleges often grant credit for sufficiently high scores on AP exams. These exams are final exams in college-level classes taught in high school and are given at high schools at the end of the courses; students who have not taken the courses may be allowed to take the exams. Colleges also grant credit for good scores on CLEP exams. These exams are generally easier than AP exams, are given at test centers throughout the state, and cover the content of more than thirty college-level courses. ACT (formerly American College Testing) offers the ACT, a somewhat broader college admission test that colleges may use instead of or in addition to the SAT. The ACT consists of four sections: English, math, reading, and science. Even when SAT/ACT scores aren't required, they provide one way (there are others) to demonstrate academic ability and acquired knowledge in the absence of a traditional transcript. It may be possible to gain admission to the schools your kids choose through testing alone, and impressive test scores always add strength to a college application. Just as in the case with the SAT/ACT, good scores on AP and/or CLEP exams can support a college application. Check carefully with colleges of interest for their policies regarding credit. Classes that prepare students for these tests may be offered by high schools, adult schools, community colleges, and private companies.
Guides and preparation materials can be found in libraries and bookstores. Explanatory and application materials from the College Board and ACT can be found at high schools, colleges, and libraries, and also can be obtained directly from the College Board at (510) 873-8000 or at http://www.collegeboard.org; SAT tests will be changing within the next few years. To keep informed of those changes, check the website http://www.collegeboard.com/about/newsat/newsat.html. Information about the ACT can be obtained at (916) 631-9200 or at http://www.act.org. Information on the GED is available at http://www.acenet.edu/calec/ged.
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/000064.htm
College Confidential: Does CHSPE = GED?
Question: When colleges say that they accept GEDs, what does that mean for the CHSPE? Do they accept that credential as a high school diploma? If not, what should I do?
At the California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) Web site (www.cde.ca.gov/statetests/chspe) you can find an Information Bulletin and Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about the CHSPE. California law states that the Certificate of Proficiency provided to students who pass the CHSPE is equivalent to a high school diploma. In other words, institutions that are subject to California law and that require a high school diploma must also accept the CHSPE. (However, the Certificate of Proficiency is not equivalent to completing all course work required for regular graduation from high school.)
Therefore, if you've received the CHSPE Certificate of Proficiency, your certificate would be equivalent to a high school diploma. The Certificate of Proficiency is not equivalent to completing all course work required for regular graduation from high school in California. However--and this is a good caveat for most general college-entrance-related questions--you should always check with the admissions offices (or admissions sections of the Web sites) of those colleges to which you are considering applying. This is especially important if you're interested in colleges and universities outside of California that may not accept the CHSPE or may not even be familiar with it.
Maybe DameAutour could get one of those diplomas from you, Max Combined? If she takes a proctored Pre-GED or ASVAB or similar type of test and her scores are high enough, would you be willing to help her out? I have no idea if this is legal or if it would work. All she would need is just one college level class and then the high school transcripts become meaningless. It might be worthwhile for her to consider moving to one of these states like Texas (perhaps one is nearby where she lives) and take advantage of the loophole.
I agree about Humanities. We've waited till now for him to take his Humanities req., so he'll be almost 17 when taking it. The 2nd 3 hours of the Humanities req was filled by a History of Music course, or something like that.
The good thing about being at home and taking classes is that you can "deprogram" the garbage that they are fed by liberal profs.
So far, one of his favorite profs, was his Comp I and II prof, and he was a liberal, but was all for a good debate. In taking his College Placement Test they placed him in an Honors Comp class and it was run more like a discussion group than a lecture. Lots of liberal garbage discussed, but my son seemed to enjoy the debate, expressed conservative views in his papers, and it didn't affect his grade.
Also, wore Bush/Cheney paraphenalia this past year and got into some spiritued discussions (you had to give a persuasive speech in his speech class on why you supported a candidate...his prof hated Bush, but my son gave a speech about why he supported Bush and got one of the only A's in the class...easy reason why, those supporting Kerry had no real basis for their support, thus no logical points). He was offended when they wouldn't let him participate in the Presidential straw poll in one class because he wasn't old enough to vote.
I was concerned at first, but am so glad he was home at the time he was taking these classes so his dad and I could discuss the issues raised with him.
Employers and colleges prefer high school diplomas to GEDs.
Like other homeschool parents, at one point right before she finished her coursework at the community college, I printed out her HS diploma and moved her on. Oh, I did do one smart thing, because she was still considered in high school at the time of enrollment, she didn't have to take ACT or SAT--by the time she went to a 4 year college, she was already established and considered a transfer student; therefore they didn't require any testing either. She has a great GPA and is extremely active. She is age 18 now and a Jr. in college.
Wow. Congratulations for having that kind of motivation.
Once a person takes a few college classes, there is no longer any preference from employers whatsoever. I challenge anyone to post that they even had an employer ask about their high school vs GED experience once they had an AA or BS degree.
A high school diploma isn't worth the paper it's printed on. The GED might be considered less desirable, but that's just because they don't use fancy ink. The difference in value between the two? About 2 cents. There's my 2 cents.
"Employers and colleges prefer high school diplomas to GEDs."
Thinking about this further, I realize that this snobbiness is the market perception for who I might be trying reach with this message. Such people would view the title of this thread and skip over it, thereby denying their children the benefit of the positive choice offered. I'm thinking it might be useful to repost this thread with a different title, something like: "An inexpensive way to fast track your kids through high school". Any suggestions on a better title?
I'm not ripping on the GED. I thought about it myself. I could have gone to college at 16. But I know that employers DO in fact prefer high school diplomas to GEDs. Maybe it's not correct, maybe it's not fair, but it's the truth.
It's ironic that states are upping the school leaving age to 18 in many states. Kids have had enough of high school. They really want out.
There was a story in educationnews.org today about a high school in Dallas that wouldn't let kids go to the bathroom during class unless they were accompanied by a POLICE OFFICER or the school nurse. Who the hell needs that crap whether you're six years old or 16 years old?
Going to high school is such an unattractive option today what with inane zero tolerance rules, cameras all over the place, pee tests, cops with taser guns patrolling the halls, PC indoctrination and all the rest of it. Who wants to go to a school where you're considered a potential criminal who has to be watched and monitored every second of the day? Who wants to go to a school where you slip up once, and your academic career is finished?
This is a wake up call to the public schools. There are so many more options out there and savvy kids know it.
My brother-in-law quit school at 16, eventually decided he wanted to go to college, went down to the local Catholic college and talked to the dean who made him a deal. He could attend college and get his GED at the same time. He did. Now he's a vice president of a pediatric care company and doing very well.
If a college wants you, you don't necessarily need a high school diploma, which is something that public schools would rather you didn't know. Homeschoolers know it though.
Unfortunately that's true. Many have observed that a bachelor's degree is probably equal to what a high school diploma was 40 years ago. That's how much it's been dumbed down.
There is at least one exception, the International Baccalaureate Diploma, which is awarded separately from the normal high school diploma. My daughter avoided the boredom of regular high school classes, got the IB diploma and a full college scholarship. The work she did for the IB would pass for graduate school work at most universities.
Her IB class had a reunion after their first year in college. Most recounted how easy college was compared to the demands IB had put on them.
Oh My,You are from my neck of the woods then.I went to Mills High a bit north of your way,Class of 65'.Back then it was a pretty rough place,lots of working class Irish and Italian working class kids.We had a few nasty riots there back in the day.When my brother went there a few years later it was hippie high,lots of dope.
Now it is plurality Asian and very highly ranked as the home of quite a few National Merit scholars.
Even closer than you think. My dad taught high school math at the neighboring Capuchino high school. I used to attend the Mills-Cap homecoming football games when I was a child.
It's funny, but "Parkmont" high school (Carlmont) where the movie took place has really improved since I went there. Just before I went, there were some famous race riots that even showed up on the MSM news, with TV coverage of National Guard moving in to establish peace. Race riots continued to take place while I was there, on a lesser scale. But it doesn't matter how many deck chairs you rearrange, the Titanic is still going to sink. It saddens me that national merit scholars are wasting their time in high schools, they could be earning college credits very early.
Here is another way we got hosed by Gray Davis not long ago:
Committee passes bill to let gifted students skip high school
Tuesday October 1, 2002
SACRAMENTO — Gov. Gray Davis has vetoed two bills that would have made it easier for the state’s highly gifted students to skip high school and go straight to college.
The first bill, which Davis vetoed on Sunday, was authored by Assemblywoman Lynn Leach, R-Walnut Creek. It would have nixed the age requirements for the high school exit exam, allowing kids with an IQ above 150 to take the test regardless of their age.
Currently, students have to be 16 years or older to take the exam.
More than 408,000 California students were identified as gifted last year. Of those students, up to 15 percent are highly gifted.
Students who perform far above their peers often complain of being teased and taunted in high school, according to supporters of the bill.
Davis also vetoed a bill by Assemblyman Jay La Suer, R-La Mesa, on Monday, which would have provided financial assistance to pay for tuition and books.
"Best option is to homeschool, and NOT to take the GED."
Yes that would be best, but the great majority of parents cannot afford it. The options we've been discussing amount to filling out some paperwork, taking a marginally challenging test, and moving on to a community college. The result would be a 16 year old with an AA degree, and strong prospects for getting into the college of their choice.
http://archives.thedaily.washington.edu/2001/012201/N7.Earlyentra.html (1 of 7) [1/13/2003 3:25:30 PM]
Stereotypes are omnipresent.
Cultivating UW's foundation of youth
Doogie Hauser, M.D. and Bobby Fischer are media
creations serving to reinforcing public notions about
how life would be for youth carrying intellectual
capacities far exceeding their peers. As America rolls
along with an over-inflated and debilitating sense of
what professional accomplishment means, the nation's
citizens are fascinated with stories of youngsters
progressing early into academic and intellectual realms.
Perhaps it is this tendency to stereotype and assume
understanding without ever finding truth that led
students enrolled in the University of Washington
Transition School and Early Entrance Program (EEP) to
be amused with the idea of being placed under yet
another spotlight.
"The semi-annual reporter just arrived," chided
students in the program's lounge as their friends trickled
in for lunch, surprised to see an imposter sitting with pen
and notebook in hand at a table usually shared among
these friends. Energy and smart remarks poured forth
from the university students ranging from 14 to 18 years
of age, as a constant flurry of conversation whirled from
Tolstoy to the New York Times, and back to questions
of how it felt for them to study at UW.
The Robinson Center for Young Scholars
The Halbert and Nancy Robinson Center for Young
Scholars was created in 1977 by the late Halbert
Robinson, to enable highly capable youth to enter the
UW without attending high school. The most significant
element of the program, the Transition School, was
opened in 1981 to encapsulate high school while
developing knowledge, skills and attitudes necessary for
the soon-to-be undergraduate students.
Developing a social network for students in the school
is as important as the academic goals of preparing for
UW classes, said Robinson Center director Kathleen
Noble. By experiencing a rigorous year of schooling sideby-
side, and sharing a comfortable lounge and meeting
choices
place in the school once they venture individually into
college classes, the students are allowed to develop
friendships elusive to young college students at other
universities.
"The transition school makes us unique among early
entrance programs around the world," Noble said.
Many of the 65 Transition School graduates now
taking college classes here were overwhelmed by
squeezing four years of high school education into nine
months of school. But the rewards proved worthwhile,
students agree, as they now are free to study classes for
more challenging than those offered at their high schools
back home.
Ariel Federow, 18, is presently in her fourth year of
study at the UW. Like many of the students in the
Robinson Center, she will graduate with several degrees
and more than a few connections under her belt. In
addition to pursuing three majors, she is involved in a
slew of extra-curricular activities as well.
"The ratio of busy work to actual meaningful work is
far lower here," Federow said. "It is also very easy here
to get in one track, where high-school was varied, and
less specialized."
Unlike many undergraduates, Federow was able to
narrow her academic interests down early and focus on a
streamlined course load within the broad spectrum of
classes offered at the UW. Other students in the EEP,
however, are aware of the effects of specializing at such
a young age.
"That's one thing I missed out on," said Elspeth
Suthers, 18, who is majoring in astronomy, physics and
Russian. "I had less time to float around and decide what
to focus on."
Apparently, finding a focus didn't prove to be
altogether elusive, however, for Suthers, clad in jeans
with white stars bleached down the sides of both legs,
works in the planetarium at Seattle Center. Suthers
visited the planetarium throughout her childhood, she
said, and accepted when they eventually offered her a
job teaching youngsters about the cosmos.
Some skeptics fear young college students are roped
into making decisions at a young age about what
direction to take their academic and professional careers.
The carefree demeanor dominating students in the
Robinson Center's lounge, however, hints more towards
sheer curiosity and eagerness to learn than it does of the
external pressure some might expect.
"We want parents to be supportive, but we don't want
them to make all the decisions for their children," Noble
said. In order to prevent parental pressure from being the
main motivation for students attending the school, all
applicants are interviewed alone by administrators to
ensure they are driven from the inside as well as out.
Skirting the "Kiss of Death"
By allowing participants to move from junior high to
a rigorous year of Transition School in the Robinson
Center, the program not only allows these students to
accelerate intellectually by circumventing high school
altogether, but it provides them a stable social setting as
well. In their EEP classes, and later in the center's
lounge, these students can act comfortably as kids while
still pursuing a college education.
Many researchers and parents are afraid of depriving
teenagers the pleasures of youth by whisking them
through school in rooms full of substantially older
classmates. But by accepting 16 students a year into the
Robinson Center, the program found a workable
combination for providing the region's brightest the best
of both worlds; academic and social.
"Boredom will really destroy a person, so it is
important to give every student the breadth and depth
they need," said Dr. Kathleen Noble, who started
working in the EEP in 1989 and now functions as its
director. Working as a psychologist as well as
administrator, Noble co-authored several studies that
analyze the effects of subjecting gifted pupils to slowpaced
schooling that moves far slower than the pupils'
minds.
One such study, titled "What About the Prom?"
suggests high-schoolers, when bogged down by
stupefying class loads, turn to other outlets. Noble labels
such an experience the Kiss of Death.
"Some [bright students] become emotionally isolated
and intellectually stagnant. Boredom, discouragement
and frustration can metamorphose into apathy, causing
some students to drop out or function far below their
actual level of ability; others, particularly gifted girls,
learn to hide their talents and skills in order to not be
rejected by their peers," Noble elaborated in the report.
Eccentric and wise
Many undergraduate students at the UW could spend
a dozen years or more working through the lists of
accomplishments racked-up by EEP students. Brian
Green, 19, is now finishing his fifth and final year.
When he graduates in June, his diploma will list majors
in political science as well as art. Devon Livingston, 18,
plans to graduate this spring after spending three years
accumulating degrees in biochemistry and Russian.
"I'll probably go to graduate school, maybe law
school," Livingston said. "Working at the Center for
Disease Control would be my dream job."
It is difficult to say how these students, who speak
eloquently and wise from beaming juvenile faces, would
have fared in public high schools. The free-nature of
thought encouraged at universities, however, almost
certainly allowed them to progress well beyond their
years.
"I like going to school here," said Alan Worsley, 15.
"I like the freedom it allows."
It is difficult to say what is lost by skipping over four
years of high school that many people relish for the goofoff
time and social functions provided within. The
consensus among EEP students, though, is that their
time at UW allowed them to freely act as themselves
without being subjected to complacent, pack mentalities.
"There is an awful lot of prejudice against this kind of
program," Noble said. "Some think it is dangerous to a
student's mental health to skip high school, but for kids
this bright it might be dangerous to not skip high school,
because of the push for conformity found there," she
said.
Robinson Center Student Receives Rhodes
Scholarship
Former UW student Emma Brunskill, a graduate of
the Early Entrance Program, recently received honors
when she was awarded a Rhodes scholarship. Brunskill,
a 21 year-old Ph.D. candidate now studying computer
science at MIT, will head to Oxford, England this spring
to study for two years under the scholarship program.
Brunskill, a double major in computer science and
physics at the UW, enrolled in the Robinson Center here
when she was 15. She pursued various projects,
including research in medical genetics, physical
chemistry, geophysics, atomic physics, distributed
operating systems and data mining. Brunskill also swam
and rowed competitively.
The gifted scholar is the first UW graduate to receive
the Rhodes Scholarship in 20 years. She was one of 32
Americans selected for the prestigious scholarship.
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"If a college wants you, you don't necessarily need a high school diploma, which is something that public schools would rather you didn't know. "
This represents a TREMENDOUS opportunity. We could all start Freeper University and help an entire generation of kids avoid the inane liberal indoctrination known as high school.
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