Antony Flew Considers God...Sort Of (Update - Jan. 2005)

The Secular Web ^ | 1/10/2005 | Richard Carrier

[AndrewC]

Objectivism has always purported to be a philosophy for humans.

Well, you confirm my " it surely establishes that morality is based on a "point of view"". And Joseph Stalin was a human, thus my point stands. Plus you have now introduced "principles of behavior" which along with "human nature" are concepts you have left undefined.

[Dataman]

And from this you conclude that we are "basically sinful, not basically good"?

Now Jenny, that is not what I said and you know it. Why is it when an argument gets too difficult, your side resorts to deliberate distortion? Sure, the vast difference between man and his supposed closest relative is a problem for evolutionists. Why not just admit it rather than pretend it isn't there. Better yet, fall back on the old faithful, "Someday science will tell us...."?

Real evolutionists, at least those of us not on the far left, see man as a machine with free will.

OK, that's telling. Only evolutionists not on the far left are real evolutionists. But no, your leaders do not allow for free will. If you accept the premise, you must accept the conclusions.

The philosophical implications of naturalism are troubling both to naturalists and non naturalists. One of the more absurd implications is the absence of free will:

See Robert Wright's The Moral Animal: Why We Are The Way We Are; 336,350-351,324-325,355. Wright states that free will is only an illusion.

Don't forget that Dawkins calls us survival machines and sophisticated robots.

Nature Magazine (May 8,2003), in an article entitled, The Buck Stops Here claims that free will is a subjective illusion.

Daniel Dennett claims that humans are zombies without consciousness (Consciousness Explained, 1992).

Of course it takes a free will to argue against the existence of a free will. This is why the conclusion is troubling to naturalists. It is both absurd and self-refuting.

It is also worth noting that any worldview that puts more effort into denying reality than explaining it really isn't something to take seriously.

And here's one compliments of Gary:

He writes in his 1994 book The Astonishing Hypothesis:

The Scientific Search for the Soul, "Your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more that the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules."

Crick, Francis Harry Compton

posted on 11/19/2004 4:44:29 PM CST by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)

[jennyp]

It is also worth noting that any worldview that puts more effort into denying reality than explaining it really isn't something to take seriously.

<sigh> Sadly, that describes your posts here precisely!

[Dataman]

Sadly, that describes your posts here precisely!

I won't hold that against you since, as Francis Crick explained, you really couldn't help it.

[AndrewC]

This is just a trial post. I am using Amiweb browser on an Amiga emulation.

I miss my old Amiga 1000. It seems to work, but it sure is different. I guess I got too used to the MSloth stuff.