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To: WOSG
my quick reply is to read the abstract which says:

Paleoceanographic data from the Laurentian Fan, used as a proxy for sea surface temperature, reveal that surface slope waters north of the Gulf Stream experienced warming during the Little Ice Age of the 16th to 19th centuries and support the notion of an NAO-driven coupled system.

Warming during the LIA does not support Daly's comments.

My full reply will need to wait for tomorrow since I don't have the full paper in front of me and I have family commitments today. Check back then!

Its been fun!
81 posted on 01/15/2005 6:57:16 AM PST by Yelling
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To: Yelling
You are using the same logic to attack Daly as he uses to obliterate the mythical 'hockey stick', i.e., a data point disproves it. Nevermind that there are cases where global temperature goes one way and a local area goes another (consider the Sahara since 6000BC), so you have to look at the data in totality ... Daly has over a dozen data points to 'disprove' the hockey stick. Another one not mentioned by Daly is referenced below.

Try this out ...

Reference: Demezhko, D.Yu. and Shchapov, V.A. 2001. 80,000 years ground surface temperature history inferred from the temperature-depth log measured in the superdeep hole SG-4 (the Urals, Russia). Global and Planetary Change 29: 167-178.

What was done Whereas most boreholes do not exceed 1 km depth, which limits the length of the ground surface temperature history reconstruction by this method to only the last few centuries, the authors studied a borehole extending to more than 5 km depth, allowing them to reconstruct an 80,000-year history of ground surface temperature. This borehole was located in the Middle Urals within the western rim of the Tagil subsidence (58°24' N, 59°44'E).

What was learned The reconstructed temperature history revealed the existence of a number of climatic excursions, including the "Holocene Optimum 4000-6000 years ago, Medieval Warm Period with a culmination about 1000 years ago and Little Ice Age 200-500 years ago." Furthermore, the mean temperature of the Medieval Warm Period was determined to be more elevated above the mean tempera-ture of the past century than the mean temperature of the Little Ice Age was reduced below that of the past century.

What it means Once again, we have real-world evidence for the reality of the Medieval Warm Period, as well as its dominance over the past century in terms of its much greater warmth, which flies in the face of the contrary claims of climate alarmists who strive desperately to make current temperatures appear "un-precedented" over the past millennium.

83 posted on 01/15/2005 12:39:29 PM PST by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: Yelling

You miss the point ... plenty of evidence exists for the LIA... see below. If you dismiss the LIA because you found some data that contra-indicates it, then logically you must ALSO reject Mann's hypothesis, which is contra-indicated by many many more data points.


on the Little Ice Age (LIA) from NOAA website, there is little controversy that LIA was real and probably global phenomenon, driven by solar activity changes :

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/resource1000.html


The Little Ice Age (or LIA) refers to a period between 1350 and 1900 when temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere were between 1.0 and 2.0°C cooler than at present. A NASA website that provides details on current research reports that "during the Little Ice Age, access to Greenland was largely cut off by ice from 1410 to the 1720s. At the same time, canals in Holland routinely froze solid, glaciers advanced in the Alps, and sea-ice increased so much that no open water was present in any direction around Iceland in 1695." (See Shindell, 2001).
It is clear that Europe and particularly Iceland and the Alps were hit hard, especially between 1645 and 1715 A.D. during the Maunder Minimum (Eddy, 1983 ), a period of depressed solar activity. There is also recent evidence from ice caps in the South American Andes that temperatures were also cooler in that region as well during much of the period. (Thompson, 1986).


96 posted on 01/15/2005 6:25:22 PM PST by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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