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Which is exactly why Kung Fu is ineffective. These things work in a gym, but they don't necessarily work in the street. The good thing about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai, etc. is that you're training the exact techniques you'd use in a real fight. It's the paradox of effective martial arts: The safer they are the practice, the more effective their fighters tend to be in the streets.

You mistake martial arts and fighting arts. I started training in Shotokan karate when i was in 2nd or 3rd grade (i stopped Shoto a few years ago once i achieved Nidan ranking. I figured i knew enough of that style). However years before, when i was around 14-15, i started in Jeet Kune Do, an art i still practice today (and consider to be my 'primary' art, even though i have a nidan rank in Shotokan). I've also taken kodokan judo for its grappling aspects, arnis for its stick-combat, chin-na for its joint locks, and krav-maga. Finally i have been studying some lian shi kung fu principles.

Thus i think i am somewhat qualified to say some words (and those who know me know i would still comment even if i knew jack ....LOL). Anyways, most 'martial arts' are merely castrated versions of what they truly are meant to be. That is why there is a big difference between Karate-do and Karate-jitsu. One is meant to propagate form, artistic expression and discipline, while the other is meant to take down an opponent and take him out fast (and in some cases, like in Lian Shi, to outrightly kill him).

The reason wrestlers would win most 'martial artists' is because wrestlers are trained quite well to dominate and win, and most 'martial artists' are trained to be ....well .....martial ARTISTS.' Before i came to the US 5 years ago i used to go to this seedy part of town where they were teaching Tae kwon do and challenge some of the students to one on one fights (yeah yeah, those who know what nidan ranking in shotokan means will probably say i should have the 'dignity' to not challenge those of other styles to fights, but i needed to try out some jeet kune do principles on 'real world' opposition that would be hitting back and hitting hard .....and they worked perfectly....but i digress). Those dudes would always go for flowerly kicks, trying to jump and spin and all that, and they went down fast. Jeet kune do is perfect for dealing with the stuff tae kwon do has. Any kick above the waist on the street will only lead to a beating. Hence imagine such a person trying to perform a spinning crescent kick on a wrestler! Even a marginal wrestler would see the kick coming, duck it, take the kicker down, and mount him. And most 'martial artists' do not evne know how to guard nor reverse a mount.

But that doesn't mean that wrestling is better than the martial forms (i hate the term martial arts). There are a number of inherent weaknesses to westling that are easy to take care of. And styles like Jeet kune do, Lian shi, ving tsun and krav maga concentrate on the street. Some like jeet kune do and krav maga are very effective, while lian shi will get you in trouble with the law (to this day i have not seen a usable move in that particular art that would be safe, or legal, to use on a drunk friend acting rowdy). And obviously it is appropos to learn a grappling art that would enable one to know what to do if the fight goes to the ground (which is why i took judo ....when i started brazilian jujitsu was still as exotic as brazilian capoeira).

The problem with the traditional arts like tae kwon do and most versions of karate (apart from kyukinshin) is that most of the moves taught in the dojo/dojangs are 100% USELESS in the street. Sure, the punches look nice and the kicks are beautiful, but trying them out in a real life scenario would only result on the practioner getting a stomp-down! They spend time teaching correct postures, and then spend hours on end teaching forms (the ubiquitous katas). And there is nothing wrong with this .....it is just that the senseis tell their students that they will 'know how to defend themselves.' That is a lie, which is sad because those katas were originally meant to impart very effective moves but are now only useful for getting the next belt rank.

A disclaimer: At the higher rankings the traditional styles can be quite effective. For example once i reached a certain level with Shotokan we were taught exactly how to apply the moves in the katas in a combat setting (and the kata Sanchin has some very effective, and interesting, applications). And i have some friends who have taken tae kwon do to a very very high level (unlike the dudes i used to mess with), and these highly trained exponents would be a mistake to mess with (they are that good). Thus any art can be very effective if properly applied. But most people never ever get that far. They only learn how to do movie-style punches and video-game kicks and think that is all there is to it. I should probably add another disclaimer here. I am concentrating on self-defence. Many arts are totally comfortable with being just arts. And there is nothing wrong with that. Others decide to concentrate on tradition. Infact some of them are beautiful in a myriad ways. The only problem i have is when the adverts say that they will teach one how to defend themselves from an attack when the senseis do not even teach their students the proper frame of mind to have during an attack.

Compare that with krav maga, which on the very first day teaches one to develop a killer instinct (and some effective moves, on the very darn first day). OR with jeet kune do, which after one year of consistent study allowed me to know more than what over a decade of shotokan had taught me. Jeet kune do, when learnt well, is one of the most effective arts on this planet. Or chin-na, which allows you to know the effective application of joint-locks.

Let me put it this way ....your typical wrestler wouldn't even get within 3 feet of me. Not even within what JKD calls trapping range. And those of you who would say what about a grappler who 'shoots.' Well, there was a time me and this guy trained for almost two months on how to deal specifically with grapplers that 'shoot.' They can be stopped, effectively.

Anyways, one more thing. The popularity of the UFC has given grappling arts a lot of (deserved) glory. For the longest time the grappling arts were relegated to the background since they were not as flashy as the stand-up styles. However many have bought into the whole mantra that Brazilian jujitsu, particularly the type taught by the Gracie family (which seems to have more family members than there are sands in the sea), makes a person unbeatable. That is true ....and false. Few arts are as effective as brazilian jujitsu if you are fighting in a open-style COMPETITION. That is why the Gracies are famous after all. HOWEVER in the real life Brazilian jujitsu can get a person killed. Why? How the heck does a person take down the crazy oaf at the bar and mount him, and at the same time defend himself from the crazy oaf's drunk friends. Going to the ground in a public setting is asking for a beat down.

And no, i am not belittling the grappling styles. Jeet kune do 'requires' one to learn at least one grappling style (i chose judo, although i would have preferred brazilian jujitsu were it available to me at the time). However having a grappling art as the primary and sole style can lead to some 'interesting' situations. I once took down a grappler pal of mine with his own style (i knew all his moves, but he did not know all of mine).

By the way, you said in your post that 'the good thing about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai, etc. is that you're training the exact techniques you'd use in a real fight. It's the paradox of effective martial arts: The safer they are the practice, the more effective their fighters tend to be in the streets.' I have to politely disagree with the second part (but i agree with the first ....whcih is why jeet kune do and krav maga are amazing. What you learn in class is 100% meant for the street). But the second part is not completely accurate. I have not actively trained in Muay Thai but i have seen how the exponents in Thailand and the Netherlands (weirdly enough Muay Thai is actually more popular in Holland than it is in Thailand) train. That is probably the most brutal art in the world when it comes to training. Muay Thai probably has less than 10 major moves, but they drill on those elbows, shins and knees so much they become certified weapons. I have seen bleeding shins and elbows with callouses almost an inch thick. The funny thing is i saw a muay thai class in the US, and it wasn't even close to what was in the Netherlands. Here the teacher was being soft and 'nice' (i have never seen a 'nice' Muay Thai teacher outside the US), and the reason for this was probably because the school would get sued if lil' Joey went home with bruised shins and a bleeding forehead. As for Brazilian jujitsu i have never watched their training but i hear that the Gracies are quite tough (since they have their family legacy to protect). I am sure there are 'soft'schools (again, in the US a school can be sued out of existence if one of the students gets an over extended tendon). Back home in Shotokan we had to punch our hands over and over into buckets filled with sand, and hit a makiwara with our elbows until we lost all fear of hitting any object. Doing that here would probably lead to the sensei getting sent to jail.