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Slaying of 4 may be tied to (Islamic) religious extremism (NJ Christian family had throats slit)
Bergen Record ^ | Sunday, January 16, 2005 | TOM TRONCONE

Posted on 01/16/2005 5:22:26 AM PST by dead

Islamic extremists may have murdered four members of a Coptic Orthodox family found bound, gagged and with their throats slit on Friday in their Jersey City home, a law-enforcement official familiar with the case said.

The official confirmed that Hudson County investigators, as well the FBI, were "knee-deep" in pulling computer records and were coming to terms with the possibility that the family may have been targeted for death because of exchanges about religion in an Internet chat room.

The official cautioned, though, that investigators have not ruled out other possibilities, such as a robbery gone awry.

Hossam Armanious, 47, Amal Garas, 37, and their daughters Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were found dead in their Oakland Avenue home early Friday after family members alerted police that nobody had heard from them in days.

First Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Guy Gregory declined to discuss any details of the case, other than to confirm that police have ruled out a dispute the family had with a former tenant as a possible motive. He cautioned against speculating about the motive behind the murders.

"This is a very delicate investigation and one where we have spent hours at the scene collecting evidence and with the evidence collection complete, we're moving to bring in people that we feel need to be interviewed," Gregory said. "It's unfortunate that people are speculating."

But as the theory spread that revenge and religion were the driving forces behind one of the most heinous murders in the county's long history, fear enveloped the city's Coptic community.

Friends, relatives and co-worshippers of the devout family spent much of Saturday wondering how the seemingly upstanding Armanious family could fall victim to such a shockingly brutal crime. Several spoke of Hossam Armanious' participation in heated discussions about the Islamic faith on the Paltalk.com messenger service and threats he received for expressing his views about the religion.

Milad Garas, an uncle of Amal Garas, said Saturday that he was told investigators are probing whether the killings could have been prompted in part by the chat sessions. He also pointed to a passage in the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that details how enemies should be killed - bound and their throats slit, an assertion that drew a rebuttal from some Islamic scholars, but was supported by others.

A translation of passage 47:4 of the Quran reads in part: "Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers [in fight], smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly [on them]."

"There is a very wide range of interpretation of that, and it depends on where people are in the spectrum," said Frederick M. Denny, a professor of religious studies at the University of Colorado and author of more than a dozen books on Islam. "If they were going toward the extremist side, it could lead someone to believe it is justified. ... There are those that take that [passage] quite literally."

The close-knit Coptic community promised protests if the religious revenge theory proves accurate.

"If it turns out they were killed for religion, then we will [protest]," said Ayman Garas, Amal's younger brother. "We have to be patient, we can't do anything stupid. ... But it looks like it is religion, maybe."

The Armanious family moved to the United States from Egypt in part to escape religious persecution. Hossam Armanious had sensed a rise in anti-Christian extremism and wanted to make a better life for his family in America, Ayman Garas said.

"What I really want to know is: How?'' he said. "We just can't believe it at this point. Everything has passed like a dream."

The details of what may have been said in the chat sessions were not known Saturday night.

Fred Ayad, deacon of the couple's St. George Coptic Orthodox Church, said that the entire community was in a "panic" over the apparent targeting of the family, as well as the murders of a Coptic deacon in December and a Coptic cabdriver in late 2003.

Prosecutor Gregory said the conjecture about the murders is hampering his office's investigation, which he said has been exhaustive.

Copts are Egyptian Christians, a minority group of about 6 million in a nation of 60 million, and have been killed in religious rioting and during attacks on Christian churches by Islamic militants. Coptic leaders also say they lack representation in the Egyptian government and are treated like second-class citizens.

Over the past decade, Copts have increasingly immigrated to the United States. Currently, they number about 1 million in this country. Coptic Orthodox churches are scattered throughout the nation and, while there is no official count, Coptic Web sites list about 10 large congregations in New Jersey and about 20 in the tri-state area.

Islamic leaders said Saturday that the murders could not have been the work of someone inspired by the Quran.

"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."

Shedeed, who is Egyptian, said his group recently co-founded a social service organization with local Coptic churches, called Egyptian Family.

"We are trying to get religious leaders from both communities to meet on a monthly basis to break the ice between the people," he said. "We meet as individuals, but as organizations we never have done such a thing. We are trying to show that Egyptians together can benefit."

Shedeed said that as part of that effort, he attended Christmas Eve services at St. George's this year.

Asked about passages in the Quran that may suggest murdering non-believers in a manner that resembles the family's deaths, he replied, "The Quran talks about people fighting in the battle of war. It's not talking about people who live next to you. ... This has nothing to do with our community at all."

"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California. "If someone read a verse and used it to justify the killing of four people, I believe that person is unbalanced. ... There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."

On Saturday, the family received mourners at the church, as friends left lighted candles and flowers in front of the home. Neighbors talked of an exhaustive police investigation, with a former Armanious tenant, Nelly Ramirez, saying police had questioned her, her son and her son's girlfriend.

Meanwhile, friends of Sylvia, a high school sophomore who would have turned 16 on Saturday, lingered in front of the house, alternately crying and laughing. They talked of an extremely gifted teen who recently won a trip to Italy from the National Honor Society for a series of essays she wrote on topics such as Shakespeare and Charles Dickens.

"She used to write all the time," said her friend Jankil Patel, 15. "She used to go to church all the time. ... She'd debate people in class and even had a religious tattoo on her [right wrist]."

"She had a lot of friends; she was very popular," said Jessica Cimino, 15, another friend. Cimino and the other girls said they plan to attend the family funeral on Monday and wear T-shirts bearing Sylvia's image to school on Tuesday.

Ayman and Milad Garad and other family members were allowed into the crime scene for the first time on Saturday morning to gather the needed paperwork for the cemetery. They left the home with a briefcase and several other items, including a tank with several small turtles inside.

Staff Writer Kathleen Carroll contributed to this story. E-mail: troncone@northjersey.com


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: aliens; anothermissedstory; antichrist; armanious; comingtoyourhomenext; coptic; dhimmi; extremism; foxnewsasleepagain; gihad; holywar; islam; islamofascism; jerseycity; jihadinamerica; jihadtsunami; koran; koranimals; mediamissliketsunami; muslims; nicejobmedia; nukemecca; quran; religionofpeace; religionofpieces; terrorism; trop; war; waronterror; whereiscair; whereiscnn; whereisfnc; whereismsnbc; whilethemediasleeps
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To: TexasCowboy

My advice is that you report that email, etc. to your local FBI or your state police terrorism group.


581 posted on 01/17/2005 6:10:59 AM PST by bvw
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To: Lazamataz
Not all muslims are terrorists. However the terrorists have come to reign -- to have omerta -- in many muslim communities by murder, intimidation and fear. To say that all muslims are terrorists is like saying all Philadelphia Catholic school boys are union thugs. Or all Italians in New Jersey are mafiosi.

The Druze are muslim.

582 posted on 01/17/2005 6:15:19 AM PST by bvw
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To: dead

Lets hope the FBI stays on this until the Muslim killers are identified, charged and executed by having their throats slit---slooowly.


583 posted on 01/17/2005 6:15:31 AM PST by hgro
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To: bvw
Not all muslims are terrorists.

Until the Muslim population evicts, eviscerates, and eliminates terrorists from their midst -- AND MAYBE STOP CHEERING THEM TOO -- *ALL* Muslims are terrorists.

584 posted on 01/17/2005 6:21:12 AM PST by Lazamataz ("Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown" -- harpseal)
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To: pineconeland

just an FYI, the movie clip is no longer being shown.


585 posted on 01/17/2005 6:33:33 AM PST by Zechariah_8_13 (...the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.)
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To: prairiebreeze
Are you talking about lack of reporting on the Copt murders? Fox carried that many times yesterday, all day long. However, I've been listening to Fox&Friends for over an hour and a half this morning and haven't heard one word about it, not on the half-hour news updates, not on the anchor commentary.

No no! I had Fox News on all day yesterday and every hour they talked about the family in NJ.

It's the body and head they found behind the theater in NJ that they haven't mentioned.

Someone said that Fox wanted to make sure the report was accurate so they wouldn't get sued.

But Fox still hasn't mentioned this headless body this morning yet.

586 posted on 01/17/2005 6:40:49 AM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

For the most past it still is.


587 posted on 01/17/2005 6:48:03 AM PST by freeperfromnj
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To: freeperfromnj

Correction: For the most "part" it still is.


588 posted on 01/17/2005 6:49:57 AM PST by freeperfromnj
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To: dead
"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California.

Ever read the Sunnah and the Hadiths, twit? Those little tomes are as bloody as a slasher flick!

Anyone care to take bets on the odds of this atrocity being prosecuted as a hate crime? Maybe it will be prosecuted as a hate crime...and maybe I'll stand on the hood of my car and shout what a great guy Mohammed al-Qerry is, too.....

589 posted on 01/17/2005 6:51:11 AM PST by Bombardier (Scratch a Democrat, find a traitor.)
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To: dead

How sad and how frightening! Now they come into our homes to kill, these peaceful religious people who never shed blood?


590 posted on 01/17/2005 6:51:55 AM PST by Marysecretary (Thank you, Lord, for FOUR MORE YEARS!!!)
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To: debg

Discussion on Fox now


591 posted on 01/17/2005 6:53:15 AM PST by debg
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To: dead

How sad and how frightening! Now they come into our homes to kill, these peaceful religious people who never shed blood?


592 posted on 01/17/2005 6:53:33 AM PST by Marysecretary (Thank you, Lord, for FOUR MORE YEARS!!!)
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To: Gritty
There are many decent, Christian Arabs in America. These victims were four of them.

these christians were egyptians not arabs...

593 posted on 01/17/2005 6:54:50 AM PST by freddiedavis
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To: SheLion

Ah, I didn't read back far enough on the thread then, thanks. Foxhas a detective giving interview on this now. He's playing both sides of the fence giving reasons that support either theory. He does say that in thousands of burlgary investigations he's done, he's never seen the ritualized execution murders like this one.

He keeps calling it an anti-Muslim rant.....? Almost sounded like he was trying to pin the hate part on the Copt.


594 posted on 01/17/2005 6:58:13 AM PST by prairiebreeze (George W Bush: Spending well-earned political capital.)
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To: debg
Robbery detective on Fox said he has never seen a crime such as this. Bringing up "chicken" threat and Paltalk - online records will likely be subpoenaed. Mentioned the different reports about the girls cross tatoo. Reiterates no forced entry. I gathered he's leaning toward hate crime.
595 posted on 01/17/2005 6:58:30 AM PST by debg
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To: prairiebreeze

funny how we heard it a bit differently!


596 posted on 01/17/2005 7:00:00 AM PST by debg
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To: Lady Heron
We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."

a quote from baghdad bob

597 posted on 01/17/2005 7:05:54 AM PST by freddiedavis
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To: dead

Whose that guy that keeps telling us that Islam is a peaceful religion and want's to do nothing about our countries border security?


598 posted on 01/17/2005 7:11:16 AM PST by Robert Lomax
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To: Robert Lomax
Whose that guy that keeps telling us that Islam is a peaceful religion and want's to do nothing about our countries border security?

Do you mean Bush or Powell? I confuse the butt kissing rhetoric sometimes...."religion of peace" and all that manure....

599 posted on 01/17/2005 7:25:05 AM PST by Bombardier (Jihad, Nazism....Umma, Deutsches Reich.....no diff.)
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To: tkathy

Christians don't slit throats


600 posted on 01/17/2005 7:27:05 AM PST by CAP811 (One man can change the world with a bullet in the right place)
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