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To: Dead Corpse
Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787
by James Madison

Saturday, August 18
Summary of this Day
Table of Contents

IN CONVENTION
Mr. MADISON submitted in order to be referred to the
Committee of detail the following powers as proper to be
added to those of the General Legislature


"To dispose of the unappropriated lands of the U. States"

"To institute temporary Governments for New States arising therein"

"To regulate affairs with the Indians as well within as without the limits of the U. States



These propositions were referred to the Committee of detail which had prepared the Report and at the same time the following which were moved by Mr. Pinkney: in both cases unanimously.

"To fix and permanently establish the seat of Government of the U. S. in which they shall possess the exclusive right of soil & jurisdiction"

"To establish seminaries for the promotion of literature and the arts & sciences"

"To grant charters of incorporation"

"To grant patents for useful inventions"

"To secure to Authors exclusive rights for a certain time"

"To establish public institutions, rewards and immunities for the promotion of agriculture, commerce, trades and manufactures"

"That funds which shall be appropriated for1 payment of public Creditors, shall not during the time of such appropriation, be diverted or applied to any other purpose and that the Committee prepare a clause or clauses for restraining the Legislature of the U. S. from establishing a perpetual revenue"

"To secure the payment of the public debt"

"To secure all creditors under the New Constitution from a violation of the public faith when pledged by the authority of the Legislature"

"To grant letters of mark and reprisal"

So what are letters of mark & reprisal?

1. A document issued by a nation allowing a private citizen to seize citizens or goods of another nation.2. A document issued by a nation allowing a private citizen to equip a ship with arms in order to attack enemy ships.

I doubt the private ships were using bows and arrows to board and capture enemy warships. So yes private citizens DID own warships and cannon which were the most powerful weapons in existence at the time.

36 posted on 01/18/2005 12:48:15 PM PST by boofus
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To: boofus
Two problems with your use of the Constitution. First, note that it mentions Government granting letters of Marque. If ships armed with cannon were protected under the 2nd, there would be no reason for government to give its permission.

Next, Madison's notes come from the Constitutional Convention which occurred 2 years before he wrote a Bill of rights. The use of privateers discussed at the Constitutional convention could not be based on a right that was only drafted 2 years later.

No, the right protected by the 2dn is best described in the Militia Act of 1792 here:

"I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of power and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and power-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a power of power; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes."

No mention of cannon there.

You confuse owning a cannon with having a protected right under the Constitution to own a cannon. The founders simply did not grant protection to the cannon nor did they forbid them. They left that up to the states.
45 posted on 01/18/2005 1:09:02 PM PST by Jim Verdolini
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To: boofus

Read up a bit more. It was to provide Federal funding for private ships already equied to be hired in to the Navy, to allow them to attack pirates/enemies, and to disburse funds for their up keep and re-arming.


46 posted on 01/18/2005 1:09:59 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: boofus

Those warships and cannon were not explicitly protected by the Constitution though as were arms.


59 posted on 01/18/2005 1:22:38 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: boofus

Indeed, there was also a pretty healthy business back then salvaging sunken vessels.

Including the cannon that were on them.


71 posted on 01/18/2005 1:36:46 PM PST by djf
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